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Message started by Kathryn on Jan 27^th, 2007, 3:58am

Title: Sensations
Post by Kathryn on Jan 27^th, 2007, 3:58am

Hi

Probably been told lots of times already but...

Last night when I went to bed I laid down and started getting mild pounding then I was laying on my right side and it felt weird and I was getting the trembling. all of a sudden, between my breasts above my heart area I suppose and just beneath my breast I got a really intense panic feeling I tried my usual that normally eases it and it didn't work it then turned into a ache and this frightened me, I sat up or whenever I moved it felt as if I couldn't breath properly my lungs felt tight. It lasted for hours until I eventually got myself to sleep.

I did get up and go toilet and was ok still had the feelings and there still there this morning, not as bad or constant.

It's just its different than normal and the ache and intensity of it was horrible I couldn't get to sleep, my heart rhythem was ok just faster.

Yesterday a close friend of my husbands said some horrible things and I immediately defended my husband, and ended up raised voices and my heart feeling as if it's about to pound out of my chest and I ended up in tears. I'm hoping last nights episode was just a reaction to the days previous events. I think it's the fact the feeling wouldn't calm and the feeling of not being able to breathe also the ache thats paniced me. Also that it's still here a this morning and more in my neck to today.

Hope everyones feeling ok today, sorry to be a pain I know I've been told and deep down I know it's from yesterday.

Kath x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Kathryn on Jan 27^th, 2007, 2:06pm

Hi

Got the feeling again this evening it's mainly central in my chest and in my neck, gets worse when I breathe in and feels at times like I can't get a deep breath, What can I do to make it less uncomfortable?

Kath x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Kathryn on Jan 27^th, 2007, 11:52pm

Morning

Well had a better nights sleep, told myself to stop being silly, still had the feeling, but knew that if I didn't sleep properly then being tired would make it worse.

Still a bit funny this morning but not as bad.

A friend of mine has told me about a clerical vacancy where she works, which sounds good and would take the pressure off my husband, as at the moment he gets up at 5am and does his day job gets home then does his eve job and isn't getting home until 10pm, sometimes we go with him as we'd never see him, but it's not good the children being stuck in the car all that time even though we have a Chrysler people carrier so there not exactly cramped together, but it's still not good for them either. I suppose as much as I want to start working again, it's a daunting prospect, especially as my youngest is not fully at school so I'd have to sort out child care. I would like to do it, I've just got to be a bit more confident as deep down I know I could do it and it would make our mainly my husbands life much better, and he deserves that, he'll be ill if he carrys on how he is.

Well thank you for listening (reading) about me going on.

Hope everyone is having a good day

Kath x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Dickyboy199 on Jan 28^th, 2007, 12:49am

Morning Kathryn, Rich here,

I've read your last three posts and only just been able to grab some time to reply. As you will know it's fairly difficult to get any time to myself with a busy family of 4 children! By the way we have a Chrysler voyager too! Just the job for all our lot.

Anyway I hope that you are feeling much better this morning. We were awoken by the phone at 2:25 this morning as my eldest son (10) was at a freinds party/sleepover and it was his freinds mum calling to say he had a tummy ache and he wanted to come home! Well the shock of being awoken at this time of the morning made my heart do about 120 bpm. I felt really shaky and a nervy feeling in my chest similar to yourself. He was brought home at 2:45 and then we had a chat with him, gave him some Calpol and he went to bed. My wife and I both lay awake till nearly 4:30 before we managed to get back to sleep then the cat started meowing to go out! Then at 630am our youngest daughter woke up. So I've been up since 7am and I'm so tired. I've left my wife in bed to have a lay in.

The worst thing is that while laying in bed trying so hard to get to sleep all I was doing was anticipating an ectopic beat and trying to get my heart to slow down. I didn't get any ectopics, thankfully but it still doesn't help thinking about when I will get one! Also I know now that I'm going to get them today because I've hardly had any sleep! You just can't win can you!

But I know that everyone has probably said the same thing, so I apologise if I'm sounding the same, but I really think that what you are experiencing is anxiety. I have very similar feelings in my chest area and throat and I also get an ache. This happens when I'm NOT experiencing ectopics. I also get a real rush of adrenalin sometimes with a missed beat and with the runs that I am now experiencing I tend to go really hot all over. I know that even I find it hard to believe that this is all just anxiety, but I think at the back of my mind, logically, I do know that it is. It is just so amazing what the body can do to make you think there something wrong.

I have so much sympathy for your husband having to work such long hours!!! I only work 35 hours a week and I find that too long and I don't get to see my family much, even though I sometimes come home for lunch too!! We tend to do nearly everything together so it means if we go shopping the whole family goes so I know how it can put a strain on everyone especially if your all having to go to work with him as well. I do think that the added pressure may not be helping and if you getting this job will enable him to work less hours that would be good for all of you in the long run.

Hope that's of some help, hope your feeling well

Best wishes

Rich

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Kathryn on Jan 28^th, 2007, 2:39am

Hi Rich,

Thanks for your reply.

I know I have a anxiety disorder and generally over the past year or so have come on loads, but when I get like this it's just so difficult to get out of, it's like your constantly fighting the feelings and thoughts and that makes you tired.

I sympatise with you, it's always a shock to have a phone call early hours hope your son's feeling better now. I'm like you not so much now but I was, I'd lay there anticipating eptopics and all sorts of weird and wonderful things which just add to the anxiety.

Anxiety is such a powerful thing, I don't know if you've read any of my other posts but I'm currently on a anxiety management course and before christmas I did a relaxation course. They show you the anxiety circle and alot of it is triggered by our thoughts, and if you really take notice of what you are saying to yourself sometimes you are actually talking yourself into a episode!

My problem at the moment is I do not like conflict and bad feeling, like I said a so called good friend we've known for years accused my husband of not being reliable and not hard working!!! and of course I know this not to be true and my husband works very hard to provide for us, so ended up getting very upset and angry and now I'm going to be is this state for a week or so. It's funny isn't it how one episode that can last a few minutes and yes you probably stew on it for a while and cause a weeks worth of anxiety and weird beats all over the place.

I have found it has help me alot to change my diet, no caffine, fizzy alcohol, spicy foods etc... and sitting after meals and having 6 smaller meals rather than 3 large, have helped.

Anxiety is awful, there's not many people that really understand, My husband as probably is your wife is very understanding, I make him listen to my heart take my pulse, I ring him asking him if he thinks I'm ok. and he just takes it in his stride. I think he gets frustrated sometimes though because there isn't really anything he can do to help me when I'm having a anxiety attack.

Missed beats are horrible, aren't they? mild ones not to bad but when you get the big ones, oh I hate them! But it is reassuring to know that my heart is structurally ok, my cholesterol is normal and my BP is nearly always perfect, all blood tests (and I've had alot) have come back normal (except a potassium one and dehydration one once and that was easily sorted) so perhaps I should listen to that.

I have made myself this way, not straight away but over the course of 15 years give or take I have been and now it's time to face my fears and sort out the issues in the past or come to terms with things in the past to help me sort the anxiety out. We have talk ourselves and trained our bodies to react this way very gradually over many years, and whilst during those years you may never have had a panic attack or even thought there was a problem, if you look back all those little things have just built up and up! (well thats how I see it anyway)

I love my chrysler, we've got the grand voyager ltd, and it's lovely. But we're going to have to sell it to fund work need doing in the house and to pay for a well deserved holiday! We're probaly get a Renault Grand Espace instead, but prefer the layout on in our voyager though. Need the Grand for the extra 6in's boot space!! pushchairs and shopping take up lots of room.

How old are your children? if you do not mind me asking! My eldest boy is 7 then 2 girls aged 5 and 21/2

Hope I haven't rambled on to much.

Kath x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by RLR on Jan 29^th, 2007, 2:53pm

I've read your posts Kathryn. These are symptoms of anxiety and IBS-C. They change because the dynamics of the disorders change. The problem is that unless it represents a consistent and recognized symptom, you convince yourself that it's potentially something altogether different.

The GI tract responds to trapped air and cannot tell the difference sometimes between food and gas when it causes "stretch" receptors in your stomach to respond, sort of like filling a balloon with water versus air. The stomach will produce acid and, together with the air, make for a bad combination. The intestines also react to air with some degree of peristalsis, or grinding action. You can well imagine what this does when air is unable to be "digested" so to speak. Pressure against the diaphragm can make you feel short of breath and can cause surface chest pain as well. Patients can feel sweaty, light-headed, have a rapid pulse, have difficulty swallowing and other associated symptoms.

The thing to remember here is that anxiety and IBS are both extremely good at mimicking other real diseases and patiens often find themselves in a panic because of what they expose themselves to with regard to healthcare information.

I have noticed that when things are particularly rough for your family, your symptoms become exacerbated and this is altogether both common and likely the root of your problems where your disorders are concerned. People who tend to primarily react emotionally tend to set in motion physical responses without awareness and these physiological responses can increase your symptoms relative to anxiety and IBS.

And just as an added caveat, never allow someone else's poor choice of words and character cause you to react. It can be a great learning platform for you to study and understand why you find yourself reacting to these types of things and why you tend to be "defensive" much of the time.

You're going to be just fine. I've been keeping my eye you and your posts. You're in no danger whatsoever. Stay calm and think your way through things. You're doing fine.

Best regards and Good Health

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by RLR on Jan 29^th, 2007, 2:58pm

A RESPONSE FOR DICKYBOY.

You have to realize that the body places itself in a different physiological state while asleep and this varies through different stages of the sleep process. Depending upon whether you're startled when awakened, the body immediately goes into the "fight or flight" mode and adrenaline surges to bring the body to a state of preparedness. The symptoms can be especially noticable after you try and lay down a short time later. The heart can be pounding, pressure can be felt around the neck and ears, the mouth may be dry, the hands may tremble and general nervousness is experienced. This can be exacerbated if the physiological changes are focused upon, permitting symptoms to sometimes advance.

These are all normal physiological responses and no concern should be afforded here.

Best regards and Good Health

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Kathryn on Jan 30^th, 2007, 5:48am

Thank you for taking the time to reply with everything that is happening with you at this present time RLR,

Like you say I do react emotionally and I know I should just let things go over my head, or learn to deal with situations better than I do, I take too much to heart! I love my family so much and I just can't help it when someone is mean about my family, it's like there being mean to me too. I should just ignore it, but my initial reaction in to defend them. Hopefully in time I will be able to teach myself to respond in a better way.

It does help to understand what is happening. I'm obviously a very windy person! :)

My next big hurdle I need to help myself with is to exercise without worrying about how I will feel after.

I am quite proud of myself at the moment as I am doing ok and looking forward to applying for that job. I must say though that I wouldn't be as far as I am now without your help the past year or more.

I'd like to give you a big hug to say thanks, you do not realise how much impact you have had in my life.

Thank you

Kath x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Dickyboy199 on Jan 30^th, 2007, 12:11pm

Hi Kathryn, Hi RLR,

Sorry haven't replied sooner but been a bit busy with work and the usual stuff! It was really weird reading your post about your husband's friend because back in November we fell out with our closest friends who we've known for over 25 years! They're even Godparents to all of our children. The weird thing was that my best pals wife got it into her head that we didn't trust her because we hardly ever let her babysit for us. Even though we hardly let anyone babysit, only my mum or my wife's mum! We hardly ever go out anyway and we love spending time with our family.

But somehow she got this into her head and had a row with my wife, so I phoned her back to ask her why my wife was crying and what was up and she said some really horrible things. The whole time that I was speaking on the phone to her I was experiencing ectopics virtually ever other beat for nearly an hour. We haven't spoken to them since! The first few weeks I could not stop thinking about them and trying to work out what we had done wrong. I still think about them now and so does my wife and we are sort of shocked but cant understand why they fell out with us. We don't really see there is any point continuing with the relationship with the feelings she has but it is such a shame and I guess if I am honest it has really upset us both.

I just thought is was ironic that you had some words with your husbands friend and we have had a similar incident and although I still don't think that it has anything to do with my heart, I've got to admit that it must do somehow. Also as I said in a previous post we have been having a lot of trouble with my mum and my stepdad, he is 84 and becoming incontinent and she wants to leave him! My wife's dad left her mum last May then came back for three months and left her again in October. He is still with the woman he left her for who is 41, younger than me! He is 59 and he has been married to my wife's mum for 37 years!! What a shock that was. We are still feeling the effects because her mum can't accept it and wants him back! So we have been through it a bit and I guess that stress isn't always evident at the time it just bubbles away under the surface and shows itself in allsorts of guises.

By the way I went to the doctors on Thursday and she is writing to the cardiologist for yet another appointment as she doesn't know what else to do! She's probably fed up with me after reading all the reports that the cardiologist has written in the past. I've managed to get it through my work insurance again so at least I shouldn't have to wait too long for an appointment and of course I will keep you both and everyone on the site, I guess, posted as to what he says.

Also Kathryn, I have 3 boys and one little girl. Boys 5, 8, and 10 (11 in Sept) My little girl is going to be 2 on Friday 2nd! and I love the voyager actually cleaned it inside and out for once on Sunday! Wonder how long that will stay clean inside!!!

RLR, thank you once again for answering my post. I can see that the adrenaline surges like that in the middle of the night because of the fight or flight mechanism and that is why my heart was racing like mad. Oddly enough I didn't experience not one irregular beat though? By the way today I have had the runs of ectopics on three seperate occasions. Once at 11:30 where I counted at least 8 pvc's with about 3 or 4 normal beats in between each one. Then at 1:15pm I had about 4 or 5 in between 2 or 3 normal beats, I coughed deliberately and tried the vagul pressure (I think it is called something like that!) where you force at the back of your throat. Don't know if this helped or not. Then at 6:30 this evening I had about another 8 irregular beats between normal ones, some bigeminy!

So I'm fed up right now because since the Friday I've only been having one episode a day of around 3 or 4 runs of beats. Now it's getting even worse! Considering I was only ever experiencing these runs every few weeks last year I wonder why it is becoming more frequent? Could this become so frequent that I am bigeminy or similar runs all day? Also could this turn into a dangerous rythmn? Any ideas RLR? Thank you once again for your reassurance. Do you think I am right to see my cardiologist yet again? Also the doc hasn't requested bloods to check thyroid, which I thought she might?

Thanks again for all your help and support.

Best wishes RLR

Take care Kathryn, hope your feeling well.

Rich

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Kathryn on Jan 31^st, 2007, 12:11am

Hi Rich,

Funny enough this guy is godfather to our youngest, He apologised and my husband accepted his apology but I'd rather not see him for a while.

We're like you, we do not have anyone babysit accept family!

Also last year we had yet another falling out with some good friends, and I felt awful after as I hate bad feeling and I was left wondering what on earth started it all, I really missed them both my friend and her husband, as her husband had also become a good friend to me, popping in for coffee and it was nice, then on holiday it all went pair shaped and the previous year on holiday the same thing happened. But fortunately at christmas they texted us asking if we wanted to pop over for a drink and to put the past behind us, we couldn't pop round but we did meet and it was nice, just want to take things slow for now as I was really hurt before and was left with anxiety and palpitations and the rest that goes with it.

Well happy birthday to your daughter on Friday, my youngest is a nightmare, lovely but a complete monster. When I clean out my voyager it lasts about a week and then in creeps toys and well you know the rest!

When we get stressed out or something really effects me I can feel bad for a good few weeks and it sounds to me that there is alot of stress with you too, only advice I can give is try to avoid getting involved with anything not directly linked with yourself and your wife, as hard as that may be, as it's not helping you right now. I haven't had runs of them as such, but when things are really bothering me I feel worse and seem to only calm down when things are resolved, I hate the thought of other people hurting or being upset, but I've had to learn to step away and not let it effect me, and thats really hard as if it's in your nature to care then it's hard to keep out of a situation, especially when people try to get you involved! I've also had to realise that not everything will get resolved and to just try to have closure on a situation then move on, otherwise, along come the anxiety and missed beats etc.. (I hope that made sense)

I think your fine, see the cardiologist once more (not that I think you need to) just for peace of mind, if which I'm sure it will show that all is ok, then try to accept that and work out a way to calm down.

Also try to get your doctor to give you a thyroid check as that can cause palpitations etc..

Hopefully you can resolve things with your friends, even if you do not see them again, you know you parted on nicer terms rather than bad feeling. Also you may have a answer as to what caused your friends outburst.

Hope you are feeling ok today

Kath x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by saab on Jan 31^st, 2007, 1:57am

It was interesting to read your comments about being upset over incidents. Since I have suffered with health anxiety I find it much harder to get over things - as though my nerves are super sensitive and things that would not have bothered me before play on my mind now. I guess this is all part of the problem - having been told we are okay we should be able to put our health concerns behind us and get on with our lives. We somehow can't do this and this begins to extend into other areas. I know that I am a more anxious parent than I used to be, worrying about their health more than is necessary.

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by RLR on Jan 31^st, 2007, 10:47am

Rich,

Benign palpitations do not precipitate dangerous arrhythmias and are not associated with the sort of underlying cardio-pathology commonly producing such patterns. First and foremost, you're going to be fine. One aspect of the circumstances that always tends to create increasing fears is that as anxiety escalates regarding what may possibly come of the palpitation events, the symptoms are increased and it acts to reinforce fears that something potentially life-threatening may result. In other words, worrying that something is wrong produces more symptoms, which produces fear that you're correct in your assumptions. It should be of interest to you here that we have many children who experience benign palpitations on exam, but they are unaware of the instances and do not have any sophistication to be able to discern them to be of any consequence. The symptoms most always subside and frequently do so very quickly because no consideration is given by them that would elevate anxiety.

Stay clear of caffeinated products of any type, including energy drinks, chocolate, etc., take careful inventory of your diet and eat small meals, get plenty of rest and exercise. Habits like these will reduce the frequency. If you've recently changed your diet or there have been changes in sleep patterns, etc., it will lend itself to an increase in symptoms. It's also important to remember that this type of symptom is produced by anxiety and sensitivity of the Vagus nerve due to external circumstances associated with anxiety. They are not the consequence of an internal event producing the symptoms and that's very important for you to realize. In all instances of true heart disease, arrhythmias are produced by the underlying organic cause. In your case, and the other members here, it's the opposite. Your anxiety is producing changes to the sensitivity of the Vagus nerve, which in turn imposes inappropriate signals upon the heart's normal sinus rhythym.

The maneuver you are referring to is a vaso-vagal maneuver, in which strain is created by tightening certain muscular features that will force changes in vagal tone. Having been a former combat pilot, I can attest to this practice being used many times by pilots before G force compensating harnesses and other technology became commonplace. In any event, it can reduce cardiac force and slow the heart rate, more importantly in the former case used to maintain perfusion to the brain while undergoing the effects of G-forces in high-rate turns associated with aerial combat.

If you haven't had your thyroid checked, then it's not a bad idea to do so but again, the symptoms associated with either hyper or hypo thyroidism usually effect rate moreso than rhythm.

You'll be just fine.

Best regards and Good Health

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Kathryn on Feb 1^st, 2007, 12:26am

Hi

Feeling odd this morning, heart is racing and chest has that full of air feeling, feeling anxious and not sure why. Last last my heart didn't miss and beat but changed rate quickly if that makes sense, and it was whilst I was tensing the muscles in my chest, I have noticed that when I tense the muscles alot in my chest my heart feels weird why is this, is it just restriction of air in my chest?

Hoping it will calm down soon, is alright if I stay still but pounds and I can feel it adjusting to movement.

Got my anxiety management today, so should be good.

Hope all is ok today

Kath x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Dickyboy199 on Feb 3^rd, 2007, 12:06am

Hi Kathryn,

Thanks for your post. It's funny how we have both had similar upsets with friends. It was my daughter's birthday yesterday and these friends that we had fallen out with sent her a card with some money in it. But the thing is we haven't seen them or spoken since beginning of November so why is she bothering with sending a card? We can't see there is any point continuing the relationship as there is a long history of hassle we have had to put up with over the last 3 or 4 years with them. For instance when we invited them here for a meal it would be just the four of us and the children but when she invited us to their place they would always have other friends round that we didn't know! How odd is that! My mate has some very strong views on things; he gets sulky all the time and is a racist! All the things that I'm not! So as you can see we used to have some very interesting evenings!!
Some people are very strange aren’t they!

I'm a bit like you where I hate confrontation. I used to be terrible but fortunately over the years I have managed to become very assertive, I even went on an Assertive course a few years ago!! But even though I don't let people walk all over me I still don't like arguments or a fall outs with you boss or anything like that. I worry about it for weeks afterwards and keep replaying it in my mind thinking why did I say that and I shouldn’t have said that!

I read your last post and I really think that it's just anxiety; I know that's not helping you! But I definitely have those symptoms you’re describing from time to time and have managed to ignore them because I've got more important symptoms to worry about!!! Only kidding! I often get a pounding heart and in fact nearly every morning when I have to go downstairs at around 6am to let the cat out when I get back upstairs my heart is pounding and beating very fast. Maybe I'm just getting old and I it's because I haven't exercised for 3 and half years!!!!

It could have been an unconscious reaction to your anxiety management course. I hope it went ok and that you are feeling fine today.

Take care

Best wishes

Rich

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Dickyboy199 on Feb 3^rd, 2007, 12:56am

Hi RLR,

Thanks again for your post and your invaluable reassurance that you always give me when I read them. May I ask are you a cardiologist or heart specialist as you seem to have infinite amounts of knowledge in this field?

As you may have already read in my previous posts my doctor is arranging for me to see my cardiologist in Bournemouth once again. He will probably set up a 7 day event monitor as usual and hopefully reassure me that this new rythmn is ok. I know that you say that what I am experiencing is essentially still the same as what I have always had but this 'weird' rythmn to me is definitely different.

When I get the 'usual' skips, ectopics, PVC's, PAC's I know how they feel and they are nearly always isolated. I may get another one say after 20 normal beats or an hour later or a few hours etc but when I get this other rythmn I can tell it is going into it because of the first skip. It doesn't feel like the usual skip, it feels very light/mild hardly noticeable then the following beat or beats are like tiny beats NOT normal then I will experience another skip and maybe another then another 'normal' beat and then maybe a proper PVC or PAC because there is the pause and the big thud that goes with it.

During the whole time of this happening between 20 seconds to a minute I can experience maybe 30 to forty skips or sometimes just five but I feel my heart has gone into a certain rythmn because the beats in between do not feel normal. I know that I keep going on about this but that's what I can't get my head around, when you say these are just ectopics and I shouldn't get hung up whether they are bigeminy, trigeminy, runs or whatever I cannot stop thinking that this is DEFINTITELY different to what I have been experiencing for the last 23 years.

I am sure that being asymptomatic and having felt every kind of thud and bang going on in my heart that I would of noticed occasionally this other type of run of irregualr beats but I haven't. What I would really like to know ( and I know I may never get the answer) is why after experiencing benign 'normal' ectopics for 23 years would my heart start beating differently in this way 3 years ago and only after this time would this rythmn become as freqent as every day!

Sorry for the rant,

Your posts are very much appreciated

Best Wishes

Rich

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Kathryn on Feb 3^rd, 2007, 3:16am

Hi Rich

I'm awaiting a assertiveness course, but as always theres a massive waiting list.

I always worry about what I've said and re-run it in my head over and over, like you really.

I think I felt funny as I may have a virus, my eyes hurt if I move them side to side or up and the back of my neck keeps aching. My daughter come down with Chicken Pox yesterday, the other 2 had it when they were 4 and 2, so bless her she's covered in big red spots, luckily she's not been to bad with it just a bit more wingy.

Also went out to a Ann Summers party last night and thats always good for a giggle with the girls so feel ok today.

We've been getting on alot better so far with the friends we had a big argument with last year, I do not want it getting as it was before too quickly but it's nice to be friends. I actually invited my friend along last night.

It sounds as if your ex friends are trying to make a mends, but it's nice their sending the children cards especially if they are god parents as they are up keeping their responsibility. Even when me and my friends fell out last year, I still sent my friend God mother cards and she sent God daughter card at christmas. As it's not the childrens fault. If they have caused you problems perhaps it's best to stay away.

We have some strange friends, but I'm sure they may think me and my hubby are strange sometimes too. ;D

I think your fine, I think you'll feel better when you've seen the cardiologist again. I've had times where I've worried myself as things have felt differentely than normal, try not to anaylse too much, I know it's easier said than done.

Hope your daughter had a lovely birthday. By the way are you in the UK?

Hope you feel ok

Kath x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by helsbels on Feb 4^th, 2007, 2:27am

Hello Rich - just reading through your last post when you are describing this strange rhythm you have been having. I've been experiencing a very similar thing - I have been having pvcs/pacs for a few years now - and like you they have been isolated in nature, albeit sometimes they can be as much as a few a minute. But over the past say, 6 weeks I have been getting these sort of irregular rhythms much as you have desribed gettings - they start with a sort of skipped beat feeling and then seem totally irregular really before finally going into a very fast tachycardia (which I don't think you had). I have gone back to my cardiologist and he has given me an event monitor to catch exactly what is happening -he said it could just be a bunch of ectopics with some normal beats in between before then going into svt but obviously can't be 100% certain so has said let's see what we catch. I have had the monitor a week now and only managed to catch a few seconds of something - you know I really want to experience the funky rhythms I've had before so I know for sure what is going on, but by the same token, I don't ever want to have one again because they are so scary. Anyway I will let you all know what happens!

Take care everyone
Helen x

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by RLR on Feb 5^th, 2007, 4:32am

Well Rich, I certainly don't have to mention here that in response to your query, the human body changes over time and includes all aspects of physiology, ie metabolism, etc.

It is inappropriate to make direct relationships between what you felt for 23 years, versus what you are experiencing now. Changes in physiology occur just as they do with other aspects of aging, ie vision, weight, strength etc. The body's ability to handle stress also changes dramatically. The sort of impact that these stressors have on the body at 20 are far different than the effects at 45 and above and it's sort of a sliding scale.

Your difficulty is not your heart or your health, but rather your perception of the situation. You have ruminated to the extent that you have convinced yourself that all tests to the contrary, something terrible is looming and it's only a matter of time before something catastrophic occurs. In response, you've even changed your lifestyle.

It's perfectly normal for persons with benign palpitations to become fearful in the absence of knowing what the cause is and whether it is the consequence of disease. But once tests confirm a healthy heart, the problem lies elsewhere if you see what I mean. You have gone to great lengths in your posts to differentiate what I describe about the condition versus what you, in particular, are experiencing and it's very telltale of what is going on in your mind. Once a person becomes erroneously convinced that something is wrong, constant external reassurance is necessary to keep things from running amuk with fear and worry.

Your tests will turn out fine and it will provide you with some relief. Beyond that, however, is the need for you to re-direct your concerns to life beyond the condition because as I've stated on the forum many times, the palpitations will never harm you or cause a cardiac event to occur. Again, it doesn't matter how you describe the sequence of the events, I still regard them as I originally did without reservation. I've been at this for more than 40 years and in all that time, I've encountered hundreds and hundreds of patients who describe their circumstances similarly. And in that same time, I've never even once heard of a patient experiencing a cardiac event as a consequence of benign palpitations.

"A rose by any other name" comes to mind here as we talk. Your condition, regardless of the particular variety you describe, is still and will remain, benign.

Best regards and Good Health

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by Dickyboy199 on Feb 7^th, 2007, 1:19pm

Hi RLR,

Thanks again for yet another reassuring post. I am very grateful for your replies and your enormous understanding of the phenomena that a lot of us on here experience. Believe it or not I am a very logical, rational person with a sound scientific mind. If you knew my profession I think you would be surprised that I can be so irrational when it comes to affairs of the heart (so to speak!)

I have suffered the frightening feelings of my heart missing beats, thumping, racing and beating irregular, like many others have, over the years and have read so much about why it happens. I know full well that it is related to anxiety, although it never seems to happen directly when I am in an anxious state but will come on as if for no reason at some other later date. Again I know this happens to so many other people too. What I didn't know until I read your posts is that it is related to the Vagal nerve and this explains a lot, especially as I used to suffer from IBS many years ago.

Also I see a pattern emerging when reading posts on here and on similar forums. People who experience frequent benign ectopics nearly always have some form of anxiety problem or experience gastric activity or IBS, sometimes they have all three! I sometimes wonder was it the chicken or the egg or rather does the onset of asymptomatic ectopic beats predispose someone to develop an over anxious nature related to their heart or do only already anxious people happen to feel their heart and worry over every single irregular beat!!

I know that I have always been prone to some irrational anxiety when I was a kid and now in my adult life I am just a bit of a worrier. I am fully aware of the results of the tests that have already been carried out and the excellent prognosis I have been given but the 'change' in the type of rhythm and ectopic beat is what has led me to worry once again. The odd isolated ectopic here and there doesn't bother me in the slightest anymore. But I do understand when you say that the weird rhythm is still simply benign ectopics and they have just taken another form.

I am also very aware that since they started almost 3 years ago I have totally given up all forms of exercise for fear of 1000's of ectopics for hours after. Which is what I was experiencing after running three miles three times a week at work? This led me to seek out my cardiologist once again and put me off running totally. I have also taken beta blockers for those 3 years, I have put on weight and I am three years older!! I'm going to be 43 this year. So I do realise that the body changes and that this is probably yet another change but I find this run of beats much more difficult to get past because it feels so very different to what I am used to, hence the alarm that something has changed.

When I get the odd skip here and there it's no problem but when I get a run of them every day, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day I can't seem to relax about them. To me they are getting much more frequent and when it happens I don't know when it will go back into normal rhythm. Also you can't miss them happening. I feel sure that even I miss the odd ectopic now and again; I don't even notice them, even though they are still happening. But even if you miss the first couple of beats with this rhythm you'll darn well notice all the others!

I have an appointment with my cardiologist on March 16th and he is arranging an event monitor just to identify what I am experiencing. In his letter he tells me that I have an excellent prognosis, being that they have more cardiac data on me than most people in the population! He says the mitral valve leak is so minimal I could probably live to 180! He's got a good sense of humour as you can see! Anyway I will let you know the outcome of my consultation and the holter monitor results.

Since writing on this forum and corresponding with you I have been able to relax more about these runs that I am experiencing. I am not so morbid about them and if anything just getting a bit annoyed with them. I guess there isn't really anything anyone can do. They will hopefully subside in due course once I stop focussing on them. I still think it's very strange in the way they have developed and how they have increased in frequency.

I guess I'll never really get to the bottom of it and I don't think there is a suitable answer. The trouble is my analytical mind always tries to find the logical answer and I don't think there is one. The bottom line is my heart is structurally sound and providing this rhythm is just another benign one then I will have to forget about it and try as hard as possible to ignore them! I know that’s going to be easier said than done!

Anyway thanks again for you valuable support, I am very grateful for your advice.

Best wishes

Richard

Title: Re: Sensations
Post by RLR on Feb 7^th, 2007, 1:36pm

Listen Rich,

Your logic and analytical methodology wouldn't surprise me at all. I have a number of colleagues who seek me out for the very same advice and I know them all to be very sound and logical professionals otherwise. One of the most frustrating dilemmas with palpitations is that unlike a twitching eye that can be rubbed to resolution, there is nothing that a patient can do to forestall a benign palpitation or foreclose on it once a run starts. It is the unpredictability and helplessness that plagues so many good people afflicted with the condition.

If it's any comfort, we've begun to investigate several prospects for temporary relief, including research with some of the milder anticholinergics, which in general have an dampening affect on the Vagus nerve. We'll have to see what turns up, but it'll unfortunately be some time before we can get something across the counter to help out. In the meantime, you can discuss several short-term options with your primary care physician that may help to bring relief, including atenolol which is a beta-blocker that regulates rhythm and surprisingly also provides a mild anxiolytic effect for many patients. The combination could help to reduce the frequency of the palpitations and increase your comfort level without doing much to affect blood pressure.

Thanks for a very thorough response.

Best regards and Good Health