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Heart Palpitations Forum >> Symptoms and other concerns >> Heart Palpitations - Fluttering and skips.

Message started by Ryan88 on Nov 20th, 2012, 1:39pm

Title: Heart Palpitations - Fluttering and skips.
Post by Ryan88 on Nov 20th, 2012, 1:39pm

Hi, this is the first post I am about to write so please bare with me. For about the last 5 years I have been experiencing extra beats and fluttering  - this has also caused me to be massively aware of my heartbeat etc. Ok so I have been to the docs quite a few times about this problem, countless ECG's, holter monitor and 2 lots of event recording lasting for a week each time and a stress test - nothing has been found and I didn't have any symptoms at the time of having these tetsts so there's no surprise there. It's hard to put my finger on it and it's even harder for my cardiologist to take me seriously as I feel that the last time I went there he was kind of fed up with me! Basically I get a HUGE fluttering sensation in my chest, mainly when I am sitting down or slouching down, this will last for about 6 seconds, I will take a deep breath and hope it sorts itself out which it does, I also notice that this happens when I go to pick something up from the floor, but its not so much a fluttering, just seems like aload of beats juggled together untill i correct my position. This scares me ALOT. As for the skipping beats, well these usually occur when im lying down, but I can feel them coming on which is weird, get this uncomfortable feeling like somethings not sitting right, like somethings pushing into my heart, then I will get the beat,beat,skip,beat,beat,skip, etc... What am I am wondering is there anything that explains this? I have read that the vagus nerve can be irritated by the stomach, I was born with a hiatal hernia, could this be the cause? I am at a complete loss with this because the docs don't seem to know what it is. They said that on one of my holter monitors they found the odd ectopic beat but that was it, thats not a flutter is it? I know i have alot of questions but i just want to know that theres nothing to worry about!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ryan :-/

Title: Re: Heart Palpitations - Fluttering and skips.
Post by RLR on Nov 25th, 2012, 12:06pm

The ectopic beats observed would indeed constitute the "flutter" sensation that you are experiencing. Your doctors are fed up because it is indeed difficult to overcome a patient's irrational fears and conjecture, which can often lead to an endless search and reassurance for a problem which in reality does not exist.

You are merely experiencing vagus nerve-induced palpitation events and they are entirely benign in nature. You are at no risk whatsoever and you need to reflect upon the fact that irrational fears which create the perception that you survival is at risk will produce innate responses by the brain. You can become compelled to continue searching and identifying a threat which is entirely unreal and only perceived. It is based upon your personal interpretation of what you believe to be symptoms and you must come to realize your error where this is concerned. Failure to do so can result in a life-altering status and in some instances change the way you interact with life all in the interests of protecting your safety and avoiding the harm and peril which you believe is imminent. Indeed, this occurs frequently.

There is nothing actually wrong with you and simply because physiological manifestations are present as a consequence of somatic anxiety does not even remotely suggest that you are experiencing symptoms of a serious disease of some type. You are yielding to the influence of irrational fear and it is the juncture where your focus should be directed in order to resolve the matter.

Put simply, there is nothing whatsoever for you to worry about. You are entirely healthy.

Best regards,

Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)

Title: Re: Heart Palpitations - Fluttering and skips.
Post by Ryan88 on Nov 26th, 2012, 2:07am

Thank you for your response.

Title: Re: Heart Palpitations - Fluttering and skips.
Post by Ryan88 on Dec 3rd, 2012, 7:43am

RLR, can you give me some information around the difference of ectopic beats and V-Tach? I know there is a difference but I can't quite understand how it works.

The definition of an ectopic is a skipped or missed beat, which I would presume would only be felt as a skip, I experience this. But with the flutter I get it's very difficult to demonstrate what my heart does, but it seems to beat erratically and completely out of time for the brief spell of 5 seconds or so. Is it possible for these to just be ectopics? Because if it is more than 3 ectopics in a row, it is apparently V Tach.

I would just like some clarification on the two, and what makes them so different? I.e. how would I know the difference between having ectopics and a run of V-Tach?

Thanks again

Title: Re: Heart Palpitations - Fluttering and skips.
Post by RLR on Dec 9th, 2012, 5:17pm

Okay, it's important here to realize there there are ectopic beats with have an intra-cardiac origin and those with an extra-cardiac origin. It's important to your question because the lack of differentiation would mean that ventricular tachycardia is defined rather universally and it's not the case. Also realize that simply researching the internet for clinical data which appears to match your own condition is wrought with error that typically leads to much speculation or worse.

While the definition of v-tach can be clinically validated by a three consecutive ventricular ectopic events, they must be defined by ECG as ventricular in nature and they are codified by the fact that the origin of the ectopics is from within the heart, or intra-cardiac. By contrast, the type of ectopics that you and others who visit the forum here arise from inappropriate or wayward stimulation of the vagus nerve, of which one of the terminal endings is the heart muscle. These events are therefore extra-cardiac in nature. Those that originate within the heart can potentially represent the source of a problem but in most instances are benign, while those originating from outside the heart are entirely benign. The potential for a run of intra-cardiac ectopics to culminate into v-tach is qualified, while a seemingly similar run of extra-cardiac ectopics does not constitute v-tach. Regardless, it is entirely subjective to try and determine by sensation whether and to what extent these events occur, subsequently attempting to apply clinical definition where none is likely to exist.

People with benign palpitations are compelled to try and define the full spectrum of potential for harm by the events because they feel frightened that the palpitations possess far more capacity than is actually the case. In other words, any disturbance in rhythm can potentially rise exponentially to become the ability to prevent return of normal sinus rhythm or worse yet, produce asystole or absence of heart rhythm altogether. This type of speculation is rooted in irrational beliefs because many actual facts are beyond the awareness of non-medically trained persons.

It's very critical to acknowledge to yourself that the entirely of your vigilance and concerns are drafted from your own interpretations of the circumstances and not the actual medical facts in such instances. In other words, you can't simply read about similar sounding medical criteria and actually cause it to become a true medical concern. It's analogous to worrying that the moon will drift out of its orbit with the belief that thinking about it could actually influence the gravitational field holding it in place. People don't simply become concerned when the palpitations occur, but rather feel as though their life may be in jeopardy and so their quest for defining and overcoming the threat takes them to the absolute darkest corner of potential outcomes, far beyond the actual circumstances at issue.

You're going to be fine. There is nothing wrong with your heart and these events do not hold the capacity to do you harm.

Best regards,

Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)

Title: Re: Heart Palpitations - Fluttering and skips.
Post by john arnold on Dec 10th, 2012, 9:42pm

You are at no risk whatsoever and you need to reflect upon the fact that irrational fears which create the perception that you survival is at risk will produce innate responses by the brain.

Title: Re: Heart Palpitations - Fluttering and skips.
Post by ncmimi on May 6th, 2013, 6:53am

To Ryan88.....I have hiatal hernia and experience exact symptoms you describe when body position is as you describe (bending over, etc.).  Found, after wearing 7 day monitor, cardiologist said fluttery feeling..SVT, other feelings..PAC, PVC.  Scary feeling for me, but okay.

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