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ectopics & lurch sensation (Read 25470 times)
seffie
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ectopics & lurch sensation
Jul 10th, 2007, 2:54pm
 
Hi everyone, haven't posted for a while but check regularly to see how everyones doing.
Been trying to cope with awful ectopics-some days manageable other days really unable to cope with them.
Had a 24 hour holter monitor last week & just waiting for the results.

My latest problem with the ectopics is that I'm getting that horrible 'lurch' in my chest during the 'pause ' bit. It is very intense in the centre of my chest just like the feeling you get in a lift . Also, at the same time I get a twinge in the right side of my chest with the ectopic & I seem to get a hot flush surge through the centre of my body.
This isn't happening with every ectopic beat but today I've had it about 30-40 times & I feel like my blood pressure is all over the place-my head feels spacey & then as my heart thuds my head & extremities feel full of blood. It's just all so uncomfortable. I can understand what's happening during an ectopic beat but I don't really understand the physiology of these intense, lurch sensations especially as I get it just as I feel the pause. It is really scaring me because I don't understand what's going on.

Really hope someone can explain this to me-RLR hope you have the time to respond.
When I get the results of my 24 hour monitor, if it's appropriate I'm planning on trying beta blockers as I can't cope with the fear & although overall my health anxiety has improved I can't lose my fear of these palpitations.
Thanks for listening.
Seffie xx
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RLR
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #1 - Jul 11th, 2007, 10:31am
 
When a benign palpitation occurs, depending upon its influence it can cause brief changes in blood pressure. There are sensors in the carotid arteries of the neck known as baroreceptors, which detect the drop in pressure and signal the brain to increase cardiac force and rate to quickly compensate so that pressure is restored to normal. Epinephrine is released from the adrenalin glands atop the kidneys and all together, the net result is an increase in pressure to normal through physiological compensation.

The side-effects of this compensation can really take you for a spin on occasion, but they are entirely harmless. Beta blockers are a good choice to relieve the intensity of benign palpitations because they not only reduce cardiac force, they also have an anxiolytic effect on anxiety, reducing symptoms. You'll be just fine and remember that just because the quality or intensity of the palpitations has changed, does not indicate a heart problem. This type of palpitation is extra-cardiac in nature, meaning that its origin lies outside the heart and actually occurs via stimulation by the Vagus nerve.

If you've experienced a change in GI habits, i.e. indigestion, cramping, constipation, etc. then this is highly suspect for causing the Vagus nerve to become stimulated. The Vagus nerve innervates the GI tract as the "gastric nerve."

You'll be fine.

Best regards and Good Health
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seffie
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #2 - Jul 11th, 2007, 12:17pm
 
Dear RLR,
thankyou so much for taking the time to reply. You have explained it very well to me & although from your previous responses I had kind of worked out that my body would be trying to restore balance ie: blood pressure, I needed a clear explanation (& some reassurance!) of what was going on, especially with regard to the lurch feeling which is just horrible.

I had to see my doctor again today & she checked my BP again as the last 2 times it's been a little on the low side ( 96/64) & today it was 86/66 with a pulse reading of 63 bpm. I was having ectopic beats at the time she took it. She said she wasn't concerned but a couple of months ago the top readings were 120 & 100 & now I'm starting to worry about the fact the systolic pressure seems to be dropping.
I suppose I'm worried that my heart isn't pumping as efficiently as it should. I don't feel dizzy just abit 'empty headed' sometimes. I sometimes get black spots in my vision if I get up too quickly but I've had that for as long as I can remember & my BP was perfect throughout my pregnancy, even during labour it was normal so it may have always been on the low side.
Since January I have lost weight mainly through changing to a healthier diet although I have always been normal weight, but other than that I haven't really changed anything. (on a previous post I gave the impression that I have high BP but I don't, it has always been normal or low end of normal.)

What I am also concerned about is that if I wanted to go on beta blockers I wouldn't be able to if my BP continued to be low. Obviously I will need to discuss this with my doctor but I just wondered what your opinion would be on this.

Sorry to ask another question in response to your post, I am very grateful that you take the time to answer our questions. I know that my health anxiety makes everything worse but I think most people would find these palpitations scary!!
I appreciate your time & effort!
Thanks again
Seffie xx
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #3 - Jul 12th, 2007, 4:22am
 
If your interest in beta blockers is to address the palpitations and anxiety, although it's a good choice it can make symptoms more apparent with regard to lower blood pressure in some patients. It might be possible to try a smaller dosage range of about 25mg per day to see what effects are observed. Realize that these drugs in the dosage range being described cannot simply lower your pressure beyond a certain threshold. But again, if you are already sensing some effects of low blood pressure, which by the way does not appear abnormal by any means in your case, then using an anti-hypertensive agent may exacerbate those symptoms.

There are plenty of options should your primary care physician feel the beta blockers would be unwarranted.

Best regards and Good Health
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seffie
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #4 - Jul 12th, 2007, 10:27am
 
Thanks RLR,
I will see what the results of the 24 hour monitor are & then discuss options with my doctor. I just need a break from the palpitations & the anxiety that they cause & was hoping that beta blockers might help a little.
Thanks again!
Seffie xx
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Stu M
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #5 - Jul 13th, 2007, 7:49am
 
Hi Seffie,

You seem to be getting very similar symptoms as me.  The lurch feeling is 'so me' its untrue  Wink

I dont know if you remember my recent posts but I have started taking Betablockers recently 80mg propananol a day.

I was very worried and had some very strange experiences on it for the first couple of weeks, but now im mostly fine with them, and they have helped the palps and especialy the intense thumps and bumps and lurches I was getting.  I do notice it if i miss taking them.

Dont get me wrong its not a perfect solution, and they still make me feel a bit strange sometimes, but, they ARE helping ME.  And if it gives me space to get my life back on track, then so be it.  Hopefully in the future I cope without them  Smiley

My advice would be give them a try if your doctor thinks its wise and you have his/her supervision.  

I was very very wary about taking them, and on a number of occasions had taken beta blockers for a day or two then thrown them in the drawer and vowed never to take them again.  But I can see the other side now and why they are used.  No-one likes taking drugs but if they help you then give it a go.

Hope you feel better soon.

Stu

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seffie
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #6 - Jul 14th, 2007, 10:41am
 
Stu,
thanks for your post. Yes, I am very worried about taking them but I am so fed up of living in fear of these things that I'm willing to try them.

I did actually take BB's years ago when I first suffered from anxiety & palpitations but back then the palps were more racing & pounding & I can understand how they would help this type of palpitation.
I was fine on them then but I know it took a long time to get off them.

I also find I get very anxious driving & when out socially as if I feel just one palpitation then it triggers the adrenaline & the ectopics are off!! I have sat through so many meals & evenings out with the lurching & thudding & fluttering, trying to have a normal conversation & telling myself 'just accept them, ignore them etc' whilst feeling hot & flushed, stomach churning, light-headed etc etc!!!!

It is so horrible. I have had CBT & read C Weekes book but when I'm in certain situations my mind makes that association & instead of an enjoyable night out it becomes an ordeal. I'm hoping that the BB's might help me to feel calm in those kind of situations & give my body a break from the onslaught of adrenaline which then makes me feel exhausted.

Sorry Stu, gone on abit there!!!!
Do you mind me asking what the strange experiences were that you had when you first started on them or would it be better not to tell me?!

I have read a lot of your posts & I'm sorry that you have had such a hard time with these. I'm glad the BB's seem to be helping you. I think if they just calmed them down abit that would be great. I can cope with them up to a point but when I'm getting up to 10 a minute, every minute for hours I find it very hard to cope.
Hope you continue to feel better!
Thanks again!
Seffie x
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #7 - Jul 15th, 2007, 1:10am
 
Dear Seffie
I just read your latest post and you sound like you are having the same amount of ectopics as me. I get about eight per  minute at the moment but sometimes have them on constant for half an hour. They are horrible. Stu has been getting on better with beta blockers so I think they are well worth a go for you. You can only try them and they are not dangerous to take. and if you try propanolol it is out your system in a very short space of time, unless you get the long-acting kind.

I take a very low dose because a higher dose actually made my ectopics worse, so perhaps aim to start out low, especially if you have lowish blood pressure because while low blood pressure is actually a sign of a healthy person you don't really want the symptoms that can go with it if it does go a bit lower. I have blood pressure in the normal range (but at the low end I have been told) and when I took the higher dose they did affect me and make me feel a bit odd. so now I only take 10mg propanolol twice daily and actually I don't think it is helping because it's all the same if I forget to take one. I am thinking of asking my cardiologist if it is worth taking them - and could there be an option to take one-off tablets if really fast and pounding heartbeats come on - because I get this too.

Good luck with taking the tablets, Seffie. They can't really do you any harm (I don't like taking tablets either). I know this might be an off-the-wall suggestion, and I hate taking drugs myself, but have you considered anti-anxiety meds for your anxiety while you work on things. I don't like to tempt fate but I have been taking citalopram for about six weeks now for panic attacks and very bad anxiety that was affecting my life badly, and the ectopics are improved on what they were. It's kind of proof that anxiety makes them worse, so if you are having bad anxiety out and about if you cure the anxiety by whatever means (medication or therapy) it could work.

I am trying to really work on myself and my way of thinking about everything - because I do react badly to stress and I think this has brought anxiety and panic into my life and all its associated horrible symptoms. Let's just say before anxiety and panic I never had any issues with my heart rythm or its rate. It would be too much of a coincidence for them not to be related, I want to believe.

Let us know how you get on
bead
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seffie
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #8 - Jul 15th, 2007, 1:23am
 
Hi Beadbabe,
thanks for your reply.
Although I'm seriously considering BB's I'm not sure they'll be an option for me while my BP is this low. I don't know why it's low & this is worrying me abit.
I have thought about anti-anxiety meds but I've read about so many good & bad things about them that I just don't know what to do. My friend is really struggling to come off them which puts me off abit.
I wish there was something you could take when things are acute but there doesn't really seem to be anything. My GP once gave me valium on an 'as needed' basis but I never took it, as I have only heard bad things about it.
Although I realise that anxiety is one of the main causes of the palps or it at least helps to keep them going once they start, I do feel that my hormones may be the precipitating factor as they do seem to link in with my cycle & are worse if I skip a month so I'm also thinking about HRT for short term use to see if this helps a little. This is what I mean about identifying the root cause so I can do whatever I can to reduce / eliminate them. I know RLR talks a lot about digestion issues but, if I have this, then I'm not aware of it. I have reduced my supplements abit in case they were contributing to GI irritation.
Anyway, glad that the meds are helping you a little!
Thanks again,
Seffie xx
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beadbabe
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #9 - Jul 15th, 2007, 2:48am
 
hello
no I don't have digestive problems either. Perhaps they are hormonally linked with you - how old are you, do you mind me asking? some people say you can get them during menopause and others notice they can get worse before their period or whatever. I have noticed no pattern to this myself. I have tracked everything.

If you think they are hormonally linked and you still have periods, what about taking the pill because this might level out your hormones a bit?????? A bit of an experimental idea there! I don't know if it's the hormones that would make your ectopics worse, or if it's hormones that make the anxiety worse. I think that my hormones make my state of mind a bit more loopy at certain times of the month.

The only thing I notice is that in certain situations or body positions they are worse. eg. when I went to a wedding recently they were terrible. I didn't know anyone there and I'm not very good at anything like that. Also if I bend over or get up quickly this can trigger a real bout.

I have come off ssri's before - I had no problem at all coming off them. But unfortunately after a few months off them the panic attacks and anxiety came back and the ectopics got a lots worse. so I have spent the last two weeks going on them - I found going on them worse but it's several weeks in and my anxiety is feeling improved. I am no longer avoiding going out. I am completely anti-medication really - things have to be really bad before I take anything because I don't like putting stuff in and messing around with myself. But honestly after the nightmare month of going on the tablets I can honestly say that it was worth it - my sleep is better than it was, and I don't feel weird 100% of the time - much less often, and sometimes I even forget about my ectopics, and other symptoms.

I wouldn't worry about low BP - most doctors would say it is a good thing. sometimes you can get it a bit if you aren't drinking enough - so make sure you are taking plenty of fluids - water, herbal tea, weak tea whatever takes your fancy but nothing dehydrating or that will make your palpitations worse Smiley  In fact low blood pressure is probably desirable because it means your arteries aren't all clogged up - think of it that way.

I think that kind of thing can be worse if you are tired too, and if you have a lot of anxiety then you probably do get quite exhausted - I know I do, so try to take a break if you ever can and slow down what you are doing.

Best of luck and hope some of this wibbling helps you with your thoughts
bead x
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seffie
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #10 - Jul 15th, 2007, 8:33am
 
Thanks Beadbabe,
your advice is really helpful. I am 44 & I had hormone tests a couple of years ago which confirmed I was in peri. I think I'll have to go back to the doctor & ask his advice about what to do.
I just feel very confused about all the different symptoms that I have, I think the anxiety, palps & hormones are all linked but I just don't know what to treat, maybe I should just try HRT  for a while to see if it makes any difference & then at least I'll know if the main culprit is my hormones.
Thanks for your support, glad you seem to be coping better.
Seffie xx
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Stu M
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #11 - Jul 16th, 2007, 9:18am
 
Hi Seffie,

The beta blockers are definately helping me at the moment, and I can only be glad of that fact even though im on medication which i dont like.  But hey, if they help you go to do whats best.

You can ask what weird side effects i got, by all means,

I felt realy sick,  my heart rate is consistantly between 50 and 55 (low for me), Felt and look spaced out, Felt like my lower rear part of my brain is burning hot, difficulty sleeping, although Im tired all the time, Felt like my upper chest is full of cotton wool, Metalic taste occasionaly in mouth  and was general floaty, not quite with it.

This lasted about 2-3 weeks, but was unpleasent whilst it lasted, all is back to normal including heartrate (which worried me at the time).  I missed my tablet by accident again last night, and i hardly slept at all, have shakes, sweats and have had about 50 skipped beats today.  Not as many as some of you I know, but on the beta blockers i am getting on average 2-5 a day!

Im not saying it will work for you Seffie, or indeed its right for you, but if your GP says its safe etc I would say give it a go, and try and give it a few weeks.  I feel I am VERY slowly now starting to give my body and mind a rest and I do think a lot of it is the b.blockers calming things down a touch.  They are not perfect but they are helping at this point.

Dont know if that helps any

Stu  Smiley


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seffie
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Re: ectopics & lurch sensation
Reply #12 - Jul 17th, 2007, 10:40am
 
Stu,
thanks so much for your reply.
Yes the weird stuff didn't sound much fun but I'm having loads of weird sensations now anyway due to all the anxiety etc!
I feel like you in that I think my body just needs a rest from all the anxiety & adrenaline.
I'm having some more blood tests to check my hormone levels & then I will talk to the doctor about my options-thinking about either BB's or HRT-not something you'll be able to advise me about I guess?!!!!!!!!
Glad it's working for you & you're feeling better, I wouldn't wish this stuff on my worst enemy!
Thanks again!
Seffie x
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