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Changes to symptoms (Read 15245 times)
beadbabe
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Changes to symptoms
Dec 31st, 2007, 12:34am
 
Hi there
I had hoped not to post over Christmas / New Year but symptoms have changed and as such are causing me worry. Christmas has been lovely so far - kids and family stuff great and even a couple of nice afternoons with friends so why the symptoms.

Not only have the ectopics returned with a vengeance - normally in sets of three or four - every 20 beats or so they are also much more forceful. They now are like a kick in my chest and often wake me from sleep (I suppose if I am in light sleep because presumably they are there all night).

I have also read (and wonder if this is correct) that if you have four ectopics in a row then you are in VT. Is this true? As I regularly get  multiple ectopics up to 15 in a row at the moment -I am quite scared by the thought of VT as a girl I met recently had that and nearly died (although it seems she had an undiagnosed heart fault - even so I find that surprising in this day and age).

Is this change significant - has anyone else experienced similar or is this something new and different that needs to be looked at?

I even had an episode of pounding heart in bed last night - whihc went on for about 15 mins. Not that fast actually (about 90) but rather fast for just lying in bed and very forceful beats for about quarter of an hour.

Any ideas, folks?
bead x
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billycat
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #1 - Jan 3rd, 2008, 2:03pm
 
Hi beadbabe,

I've just read all of your recent posts and I, like you, would have been absolutely terrified of what that woman told you on the night out (I had to stop reading it the first time cos I didn't even want to take it in!!) Anyway, just wanted to say that I have multiple ectopics of more than three/four in a row - and it does eventually go away - and I also have thousands of ectopics a day (have had for several years) and yet I'm still told that my sinus rythm is ok (in between multiple ectopics), and thats what they are looking for.

Its so so scary isn't it? Also like you, my actual panic attacks are not too bad at the moment, but I think that my general state of continued heightened anxiety can prolong the ectopics without the actual panic episodes. More times than not, I find that my ectopics are REALLY bad a few weeks or even months after a stressful time! I think that the vagus nerve must get irritated by something and then take months or years to settle down again!??!

Who knows? - I just wanted to tell you that I have all those things that are particularly worrying you - and I'm still here. Not menopausal yet (I'll wait till after the baby is born for that! Wink ), but still "afflicted" every single day and night!!! Hooray!

Keep your chin up - nothing stays the same forever and I'm sure your 'symtoms' will settle again soon...

Happy New Year!
bilycatxx
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zeus34
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #2 - Jan 3rd, 2008, 2:22pm
 
Billycat, What do multiple ectopics feel like?  Usually I get the what feels like a skip/pause, followed by either a hard beat or a fast heart rate for a little bit and then it goes back to normal.

Last night however I had what I would descrips as a flutter feeling.  I always feel mine in my throat (the skips too).  I immediately put my hand on my neck to feel my pulse and it was a bunch of super fast beats, about three or four of them with barely a pause.  Not a fast heart rate, this was different.  Is that waht multiple ectopics  are?  I get these very once in a while and I tried to remain calm but it wasnt easy.  It's all I can think about right now.

I am female and will be 39 (YIKES) in two months.
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beadbabe
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #3 - Jan 4th, 2008, 3:17am
 
HI billy cat and zeus

Thanks for your words billy cat, I forget it's possible to be like this sometimes and get in a tizz especially after meeting that woman.

They are driving me nuts at the moment - runs of ectopics. (Zeus - runs of ectopics feel like you can feel a tiny beat or flutter of beats followed by more of a harder beat, and then the same again, several times, or sometimes going on for ages). Sometimes it only happens once, like you get a little beat, or a couple of them, then a thump/thud to follow up. The little beats are the ectopics, and the follow up thump the normal beat (although it doesn't feel normal). some people seem to experience the ectopic as a bit of a gap in their pulse, but there is a beat there just it's so small you might not notice it. Interesting that you are a similar age and having the same symptoms?)

Hope the pregnancy is going well, billycat, how long do you have to go now?

bead x (Happy New Year to one and all!)
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RLR
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #4 - Jan 4th, 2008, 6:25am
 
Okay, if available please forward the literature you describe that refers to "4 ectopics =VT. I'm not familiar with any such finding or protocol.

It is not uncommon to experience a change in your symptoms around the holidays, most particularly because most people change their dietary patterns during this time and take in more rich and varied foods, alcoholic beverages, more tea, coffee, etc.

It's important to remember that while anxiety can cause changes in the nervous system, changes in diet and stability of the GI tract will more often produce palpitations as a consequence. Does that make sense? In other words, just because you perceive your environment to be anxiety free, doesn't mean that changes such as those in your eating habits over the holidays won't produce symptoms.

Pounding heart is most often due to the body responding to changes in blood pressure and by increasing cardiac force, homeostasis is restored. It is a normal physiological process.  

You'll be fine. The changes do not represent pathology.  

Best regards and Good Health
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beadbabe
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #5 - Jan 4th, 2008, 8:23am
 
Hi RLR

Thanks RLR. I am hoping you can clarify this. I am in a quandary because my ectopics were bad when I was tested but they have changed over this last year to be much more frequent and noticeable. I have found info this on several websites. In fact these websites are saying 3 or more ectopics in a row. - eg.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000187.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventricular_tachycardia

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/40025107/

If this is the case am I slipping in and out of vt and is this worth worrying about? I am definitely having flutters (of two and three sometimes four between the thuds (ie the normal beat that feels stronger than usual).

Thanks, bead

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Dickyboy199
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #6 - Jan 4th, 2008, 1:06pm
 
Hi Beadbabe, Hi Billycat,

It's Dickyboy!!!  Yes I know I haven't posted for ages but I have stopped by from time to time to see what's been happening.  I decided to actually log in the other day and then I found two messages!  One from Billycat, thank you and one from RLR!  I didn't even know that you could send PM's!!!  Anyway I have replied to both, thanks again Billycat your email was really nice.  Thanks too RLR.

Anyway I decided to write because I have been following with interest your symptoms, Beadbabe, and do sometimes get quite concerned!  I have experienced constant ectopics for a few days in one go and I never want to experience that again!  Very scary!  So I have some idea of what you must be feeling like and quite frankly I admire your strength and courage getting through every day.

I wanted to tell you that I now experience runs of ectopics on a daily basis and most days I will have at least 3 or 4 episodes, sometimes many more, especially if I am doing any sort of physical exercise.  The odd isolated ectopic are rare by comparison as my main symptom is always a run of them.  They feel like a fluttering palpitation with the odd big thud mixed in with many light ectopic beats and the odd normal beat.  Sometimes there are no 'normal' beats just lots of ectopics one after the other.

I like you had a very relaxing Christmas after all our family, including me, had just recovered from a sickness and diarhea bug. During the illness my heart was resting at around 90 - 100 for over 24hrs but I had not ectopics.  Two days later on Christmas day we were all feeling a little better but I had a run of ectopics at 8.30am followed by more during the day.  As the Christmas period progressed each day they have got worse.  I am now back at work and I have had about 4 runs today, which is a little better.

I have been suffering from the runs of beats for nearly 5 years now and general ectopics for nearly 25!  I have recently seen my cardiologist and he just banged his head on the desk when I told him I'm not exercising due to it triggering runs of ectopics!!  He says that I have to work through them and that they will eventually subside if I keep the heartrate up!  He wants to prove that with an exercise stress test (again!!!) and said that if they don't subside during the test he may want to do something about it but then said probably not!

He says I will live to be 180 and I will certainly be still here in 20 years time still worried about my heart!!  I wanted to write to you to tell you that even though I am not experiencing anything like the frequency of ectopics that you are I do have the runs of ectopics many times a day and yet I have been told to exercise, specifically cycling, swimming and brisk walking.  Also my cardiologist actually mentioned the GI tract and the Vagus nerve!!!  (RLR might have something!!!)  He also says that the heart changes morphology with age, lack of exercise, weight gain and change in diet.  All of those relate to me.

I think that Christmas may of worsened my symptoms due to the illness followed by at least 3 days of very little intake of food followed by 4 or 5 days of very rich Christmas food.  But I can't tell you why suddenly after all these years where I used to swim, cycle, weight train, play squash and run did these activities not induce ectopics and now I only have to start digging the garden or reach up to change a lightbulb and I get a run of the darn things!!!

Whatever my thoughts as to why and how these have changed etc etc they still feel horrible every time I get them and I wonder if they will ever go away.  Will I ever be able to exercise again and not have them.  Will they ever go away for good.....  now that would be nice!!!!
But even though I find it so so difficult myself I really think that trying to accept them is the only thing that we can do!  When I try I then see other people doing all sorts of things and I think I bet there heart isn't popping and banging all over the show making them feel terrible inside!

I think I've turned this post into a bit of a rant and I am sorry for that!  I just wanted to empathise with you and tell you that your not alone there are many of us experiencing such similar symtoms and hopefully with support from each other we can get through this.  (I know my support has been slightly lacking for nearly a year but I'm back now and I will write again soon!)

Best wishes Beadbabe keep in touch

hope your symtoms subside

Kind Regards

Rich
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saab
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #7 - Jan 5th, 2008, 2:51am
 
I haven't been reading/posting much due to us all being ill with colds/flu.

However, I had a spell of a few days where I had ectopics on and off over Christmas week (before I was ill). I wasn't overeating, but I think the stress of Christmas may have set them off - I didn't feel stressed, but I think sometimes just the change of routine is enough for me. I had them over October half-term when we were on holiday in Cornwall too.

Hopefully, Beadbabe, you are just in a period of ectopics which will come to an end soon. This seems to be my pattern now - a few weeks of them and then hardly any for a couple of months. I have given up hoping they are gone for good and I still get very anxious about them at times, but it certainly beats having thousands a day every day like three years ago.

I haven't noticed any whilst I have had 'flu. I hope you feel better soon. Best wishes.
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beadbabe
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #8 - Jan 6th, 2008, 11:27am
 
Hi Dicky boy and saab
Welcome back to both of you - great to hear from you!

Where have you been dicky boy? (hey isn't that nearly a song Wink )
Hope you have been feeling better enough not to bother with this forum.

Saab - I was pleased (sort of) that you reminded me that you used to have thousands per day. Are you saying that you went through a period of having thousands but now they are not so bad? I wonder why that is... I hope that will be me one day because I can't stand the rate of them at the moment - they make life quite hard as they make me feel so weird and shaky.

Dicky - re exercise. That is the only thing the cardiologist had up his sleeve for treating me. Take up the gym, he said. As a very non sporty person and a very scared about my palpitations person this has been a big step for me but I have now been to the gym twice a week for an hour for the past 8 weeks or maybe it's 10. I have only missed once or twice. I do feel fitter and my heart has at times done weird stuff the whole time I am there (despite it supposed to settle down during exercise). I find it is worst on the exercise bike for some reason. Rowing and treadmill okay, and resistance training okay too, although hard for a weed like me! But I am much fitter than I was, I can already tell.

BUT... the thing I started the gym for was the help with the palpitations and so far it has not helped at all. In fact they are worse than than before I started, so I just wondered how long that might take if it is going to help.

bead x
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saab
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #9 - Jan 6th, 2008, 2:22pm
 
Yes, I was having (I calculated) thousands a day and now I have them every few months for a week or so, and fewer ectopics, but I seem to feel each one now.

I had them everyday for hours at a time for about 2 and a half years, but could only feel them in my pulse (a missed beat every 2 or 3 beats). Then I started occasionally feeling them in my chest - this went on for 4 months. Then, in April last year they more or less stopped - certainly became far less frequent. Didn't feel them in my chest, rarely felt them in my pulse.

Then on holiday in October they started again - but when present, only a few a minute, but felt as a flip in my chest. Disappeared again until over Christmas. Okay at the moment.

I wish I could put my finger on what made them subside - so I could pass it on. It wasn't a change in diet, or finally relaxing, I was already off caffeine for ages. They were not particularly related to digestion, though heavy meals could make them worse, as did poor sleep or anxiety.

What I do realise is how unpleasant the 'flip' feeling is in your chest - I could feel it in my chest and then, just after, as a missed beat in my pulse. How lucky I was not to feel  them when I was having thousands.

If it helps to know, I was sent to A and E by my GP and was kept overnight on a monitor, them sent home. I don't remember having an echocardiogram, I haven't had an holter or event monitor. I had an ecg 3 years ago, a couple of months after they started (after an op), but that was because I was so anxious about them. Two years ago I had another big op and was fine, but still had the loads and loads of ectopics.

My point is, I guess, that I haven't had half the tests and monitoring that some folk have had - they didn't think I needed them, even though I had lots of ectopics - and they still say I am fine. It is just me that has trouble believing them. When I am having a period without them, I feel almost like my old self. When I have them - well, I feel back where I started, totally anxious, scared of dropping dead. Sad

My GP too wants me to exercise, but I'm scared too - a couple of years ago I had a racing pulse for about 4 hours after a bit of light weight training. Very scary. Had to sit up in bed until 2 in the morning when it went back to normal. Told my GP next time I saw her, but she didn't seem bothered about it. Her attitude to the ectopics is 'You'll have to live with it'. She has had angina, I think, so I guess she thinks my problems are not such a big deal.

Anyway, back to your original post - I have mentioned my change in symptoms to her a couple of times now. I try not to go see her about my heart, even when I am super anxious, but wait til I am there with the kids about something. She show no interest whatsoever - it does not concern her at all. More flips, less flips, feel them, don't feel them - her attitude seems to be that if you have had the tests and they were okay then it just doesn't matter significantly. I have read elsewhere that feeling them is of no significance.

Serious changes in symptoms would be dizziness, shortness of breath, blackouts etc. She would want to know about those, I'm sure.

I hope this phase passes and you get some peace soon. Best wishes.

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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #10 - Jan 8th, 2008, 2:20am
 
One thing Cardiologist said to me when I had my heart checked out and told they were ectopics was excercise and you will find that will help. Like you Beadbabe took up excercise, always liked swimming and try and go  three or four times a week  - I wouldnt say it has got rid of the problem and when I am swimming I get them ! but one thing I do think is that if I had a problem with my heart I wouldn't be able to swim for half an hour to three quarters without a stop and you are doing a good hour in the gym - as said before I wish I knew what bought them on and also why they do subsides sometimes.  I think I have said it before on this site that I worry more that it is either damaging my heart of tiring it out but RLR always comes on and re assures me that that isn't the case.  I am continuing to go through a bad patch at the moment and I hate it  - I am presuming you live in the UK like me - I have to say the weather and the time of year dont help me either. Take care.
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #11 - Jan 8th, 2008, 4:53am
 
okay, my apologies for the delay in responding to your message and i've read the information posted at individual links about ventricular tachycardia.

Look, let me say this to everyone visiting the site and I can't emphasize this enough. You simply cannot take medical information and isolate portions of it from its surrounding venue. By that, I mean in each case you have relied upon the statement that technically VT is 3 or more consecutive contractions at a rate exceeding 100 bpm. In of itself, that statement could apply to every human being on earth and means absolutely nothing. For example, when most people exercise vigorously, their ventricular rate very often exceeds 100 bpm for the duration of the exercise. Certainly you don't believe these people to be experiencing v-tach? You are not "slipping in and out" of ventricular tachycardia. Nothing could be further from the case and that is mere speculation that has no basis in medical facts whatsoever. Again, you cannot isolate information like this and use it as the platform to make a direct comparison with your disorder. It just won't hold up under any scrutiny whatsoever.

V-tach is a prognostic indicator that the problem which has caused it is originating from within the heart or vascular system. There is nothing wrong with your heart. I repeat, nothing. You are experiencing momentary stimulation of your heart by the Vagus nerve and absolutely nothing more.

As I've said many times, people become conditioned to make the direct connection between their symptoms and disease and where benign palpitations are concerned, you cannot do this without misleading your perceptions to the furthest extent possible. I'll give you a glaring example; many times a thyroid condition can cause the heart to demonstrate various arrythmias but  we don't just toss these patients into surgery and exclaim "yes, I know you have hyperthyroidism but the symptom is in your heart and we have to perform open heart surgery right away!" See what I mean here?

You've convinced yourself that your benign palpitations indicate a heart problem because that's where the symptom is experienced but you are incorrect in doing so. No one in the medical profession has missed anything because there's nothing to miss. It's not there. A problem with your heart does not exist. Your heart is simply responding to an inappropriate signal from the Vagus nerve and nothing more. It will never damage the heart or cause you to develop heart disease.

When you can finally come to terms with these facts and realize that you're in no danger whatsoever, you'll begin to feel a little less worried and your anxiety in this regard will diminish. You simply cannot change or distort medical facts in order that they somehow fit your perception and permit you to make sense of things in your own way. Your heart is fine and it will continue to do its job for many, many years to come.

You're going to be fine. I mean that with a great deal of sincerity and its also my professional opinion, which by the way carries a great deal of weight here in my community.

Best regards and Good Health
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beadbabe
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #12 - Jan 8th, 2008, 5:21am
 
H RLR
Thanks for your reply. This kind of makes sense - I just think I keep looking for information in the hope of finding the one thing that might fix my irregular beats. Unfortunately I then keep finding things that make me think - oo err is that what is wrong with me now?

I have every respect for your opinion and it is SO MUCH VALUED! Thank you. As is everyone on here's comments and help SO APPRECIATED. (Although they are not doctors, but their help is also great.) RLR - I truly am glad you are here for the true medical perspective. I am so sorry that I am always going on and if you feel you are banging your head against a brick wall with me!

I will go away and continue to try to ignore the symptoms. This is the hard bit.

I would say the only anxiety I have remaining now is concerning my heart (I had a lot of other probs with anxiety before which I have never really been able to pinpoint but that has diminshed considerably). I guess I am scared of dying and leaving my family and not having any religious beliefs to fall back on this makes me more frightened. I just need to get a grip. I really love my family and make the most of every day I have now. It's just these infuriating palpitations which make me feel quite poorly at times - out of breath and odd.

Best wishes
Bead
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RLR
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #13 - Jan 8th, 2008, 9:41am
 
No one is telling you to go away. I'm simply stating plainly that your anxiety and lack of boundaries are causing you to wrongly believe that anything is probable and it's not the case.

You can write as much as you feel you need to in order to resolve your issues and that's why the forum is here. It's yours to use. But like the others, no one ever makes a post that says "I'm having trouble with errors in thinking and I'm not certain how to deal with it."

Rather, people continue to trust misperceptions that they create and come to trust over medical fact. The actual problem begins when you read something like the material forwarded to me and say to yourself "hey, that makes sense. That must be what I have!" Realize that it only makes sense based upon what you interpret the information to represent and in the case of the anxiety patient, their imagination and lack of self-assurance immediately runs wild with speculation and beliefs that they wrongly interpret as accurate.

Your heart is not experiencing benign palpitations because there is any damage or impending heart disease. It's that simple. Your fears are what drive the circumstances to proportions that induce panic because of uncertainty. In essence, what you establish as a conclusion is if no one can find a cause that fits your criteria, then anything is possible. People with health anxiety generally feel like their life is a ticking time-bomb and that anything they do might send them over the edge toward disaster. So they work diligently to maintain a delicate balance, always worrying that something beyond their control will upset that balance.

Just like Kathryn, you too can exercise, go take on a new job or even a new life if you choose and none of those things will negatively affect your health or your symptoms. You have to overcome the fear that something dreadful looms just around the corner. It does not.

You will indeed be fine. Just work toward identifying errors in thinking that cause your fears to become a runaway train. That's the key to establishing self-control over your anxiety. Understanding the disorder is paramount to reducing its influence.

This forum belongs to you and regardless of my response to you on any given occasion, you need to feel comfortable in asking and responding until such time that you defeat your fears and your anxiety becomes managable. That's why I'm here.

Best regards and Good Health
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Re: Changes to symptoms
Reply #14 - Jan 8th, 2008, 9:45am
 
See? you're visitng the site as we speak! It's almost as if we're discussing the matter in real-time.

You'll be fine. Take a breath and try coming at the problem from a different angle. It's your perceptions and lack of control over your anxiety that is tricking you. Learn to understand it and how to reduce its influence.

Best regards and Good Health
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