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Conflicting information (Read 5526 times)
Zarion
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Conflicting information
Feb 07th, 2008, 1:24pm
 
(Sorry for the long post, and the preamble leading up the actual concerns, but I thought I'd fill in relevant backstory)

Hi again. I posted here a few months back with some concerns over mitral valve regurgitation and echo results. Since then I've been doing fairly well with my life on the whole. Some anxiety, certainly, and sometimes a fair bit, but generally less than when this whole thing started. I may even have been getting used to it.

Although I have what I think are ectopic beats every now and again, I've yet to have a significant run, and may only have a couple every couple days. Compared to many people, I've clearly got it pretty easy. The ectopics themselves don't even scare me all that much anymore.

However, I went it for an appointment with a cardiologist a couple weeks ago that had been booked as a followup to my echocardiogram many months earlier. I wasn't even sure there was much point at the time, but I figured it might be a nice conclusion to the whole thing.

He had a basic EKG and physical exam. Said more or less that I had nothing to worry about, and even told me that he didn't think I had mitral valve regurgitation afterall (despite what the echo report said). Since no physical abnormality of the value was detected, he figured the radiologist administering the exam overcalled it.

Ok, things are more or less fine so far. I was a fair bit more nervous in the following week (I usually have 'aftershocks' of anxiety after being in a medical setting, even if I only get good news, since it reminds me of fears that I haven't been thinking as actively about for a while). Then, without warning, my family doctor calls me in to talk to her.

Turns out that she'd INTENDED to call me in to reassure me, although probably went about it in exactly the wrong way. A call from your doctor out of the blue is kinda unnerving, even if they say it's not urgent. In any case, she read me more or less the full report from the cardiologist that had been forwarded to her, which happens to contain a number of things he never mentioned to me.

Firstly, apparently my EKG in his office showed a right-branch bundle blockage, whatever that is (some sort of electric problem in the heart), although it wasn't considered important without any structural defect. Also, the cardiologist seemed to think my original incident was an episode of ventrical tacycardia, which apparently can cause one to faint among other things.

This seems to be a quite different interpretation of the original episodes than the specialist at the hospital said. For one thing, my pulse only went up to about 120bpm, and I was panicking a bit at the time, anyway. Moreoever, I thought that ectopic beats were quite a different thing than v-tac. I certainly DID have additional spikes visible on my EKG at the time that even I could read, and my feelings of them (like the momentary feeling of loss of breath, or sudden shove from behind) seem consistent with other people's descriptions of them.

I'm wondering what this means? I'd been hoping to put it all behind me, but a different (and apparently somewhat worse?) diganosis of them, which does not agree with the original doctor is a bit of a concern. Also the detection of a definite electrical abnormality is worrisome, despite being told that it isn't. I know I ought to listen when doctors tell me that, and I DO try. And apparently v-tac can actually make one faint, which doesn't sound nearly as benign as ectopics.

I've learned that my family doctor probably isn't very sensitive to anxiety. It's probably not the best idea to tell someone prone to anxiety all the tiny details of their diagnosis, and then more or less cut them loose with very abrupt replies to any anxious questions. I would normally look up right-branch bundle blockage myself, but I learned after the mitral valve regurgitation thing that it will likely only make things worse, so I figured I might ask here instead.

Anyway, thanks for your time Smiley
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beadbabe
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Re: Conflicting information
Reply #1 - Feb 7th, 2008, 1:47pm
 
Oh hello. Sorry to hear about your current confusion over the tests. I am only a fellow palpitations person so RLR can probably reassure you better than I can. But I'll answer as I see no-one has replied to you yet.

I have many many ectopics and have read that if you have more than a certain number in a row some people and lots of websites call that VT so maybe that is what your doctor did.

But if that is the case then I get VT all the time. I am guessing that you only faint from sustained VT, not from runs of ectopics. I have had plenty ectopics in a row and they make me feel dreadful and uncomfortable and I do start to panic on top but they have not caused me to faint. I have posted on here before with that question about more than four ectopics in a row equalling VT.

i  have fainted plenty times but it has not so far corresponded with a rapid heartbeat to my knoweldge.. I am just a little more prone to fainting than others! And fainting is not dangerous in itself as you usually get a little warning that you are about to faint.

If you have fainted from heart palpitations I think then that is cause for further investigation. Given the choice between who to listen to out of your GP and the specialist, I would go with the specialist. One GP I saw told me stuff that was clearly wrong - she told me beta blockers couldn't make ectopics worse, but the cardiologist confirmed to me that they can because they slow the overall heart rate which means more ectopics can creep in there. So you see, the specialists know more about it than GPs.

But I have been told time and time again that ectopics are not dangerous in a normal heart, and even if you have this thing that they told you, perhaps it is within the realms of what doctors consider normal. I am sure RLR can tell you about this but I am just trying to see why the doctors have sent you away telling you to not worry.

Hope my words help you out a bit.
I am always on here (sad case that I am Wink )

bead
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RLR
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Re: Conflicting information
Reply #2 - Feb 13th, 2008, 8:35pm
 
Okay, I can't correctly discern from your posting, but if you're referring to the computer printout and any reference to right bundle branch block, you can relax. This is a common question or concern by many patients. The computer inside the ECG is equipped to interpret the ECG strip based upon algorithms programmed into its database.

The critical fact that you have to realize is that the computer only derives a differential diagnosis based upon the signals it receives and has no way of actually knowing the condition of your heart, the precise placement of the leads, medications, etc.

I don't even pay attention to what the computer has to offer in the way of a diagnosis. I read the data and base my decisions upon the patient's history and other diagnostic criteria. It's important for you to know that a multitude of factors can cause the ECG to interpret all sorts of diagnostic inferences, none of which should ever be considered to be accurate unless there is supoorting evidence and in your case, there is apparently none.

When the Vagus nerve inappropriately stimulates the heart, which you sense as a palpitation, the lungs, the larnyx and other areas can also be affected. This is why some folks are oftentimes compelled to cough in the presence of a palpitation or describe changes in their respiratory patterns. What your sensing is a disturbance of the nervous system in a manner that provokes an imposition upon the normal sinus rhythm of the heart. It will never cause you any harm and won't shorten your life span by even a moment. You'll be fine.

Best regards and Good Health
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Zarion
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Re: Conflicting information
Reply #3 - Feb 14th, 2008, 9:51am
 
Sorry if I was unclear, but to the best of my knowledge, this was not from a computer readout, but the cardiologist's own opinion.

Basically, I saw him in person, and he didn't say much other than a general 'you're fine.' However, a week later, my family doctor called me in to talk to her, and she read me the official report the cardiologist had sent to her office regarding my meeting with him. This report contained a lot of stuff that he hadn't mentioned to me in person, including the right-branch bundle blockage, and his diagnosis of ventricular tachycardia for my original episodes.

What I'm concerned about is how the information he told me in person, and the information relayed through my familiar doctor differ from each other, as well as how they differ from the internist who examined me at the hospital during the actual episode of significant palpitations. I'd originally been told that it seemed to be nothing more than ectopic beats, and now the cardiologist thinks it's something more? My family doctor even said that in a worse case people with v-tac might require a pacemaker, and that it can cause a person to be pulseless for short periods of time...

Now, despite all this, she did still said that I'm basically fine, but that's not all that reassuring after calling you into the doctor's office (which is alarming enough in itself. Doctors don't usually call you in without a good reason), and then giving me all the gory details of the report, including various heart abnormalities. I don't think she really understands health anxieties all that well, to be honest.
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Re: Conflicting information
Reply #4 - Feb 14th, 2008, 3:01pm
 
Yes, I would agree that some physicians have a lack of concern about health anxiety on the part of their patients, particularly in light of the fact that I have a good number of physicians as patients who, in my opinion, are among my most worrisome. You'd think there would be some insight in that regard, but alas I've yet to witness it.

If your cardiologist sent a report to your doctor, then you need to realize that this is your health information and not theirs. If you have questions or concerns, it's your right to know specifically what the report means and what options you have available. If your cardiologist refuses to elaborate, then find a more suitable physician. I have little regard for physicians who feel their compensation should be at a premium while their service time to patients is kept at a minimum. If you feel you need a better explanation then request one and don't let them steer you away with a loaded reply that merely says don't worry, you'll be fine. Ask for the specifics and even a copy of the report.

I do not recall you stating that you've been having episodes of ventricular tachycardia.  Could you elaborate on that for me please? I will tell you that in cases where this disorder requires pacing, we're speaking of heart rates exceeding 200 or excessive conduction delays and that sort of thing, not mere palpitations of the type you're experiencing.

If you care to obtain the exact diagnosis from the report, then I'll be glad to discuss it with you. It's important to know exactly what the parameters of the report depict. Certainly from the general response by your doctors, I do not believe there is evidence of pathology that would be placing you at any degree of risk. Physicians simply don't withold that sort of information or gamble with your healthcare in that regard.

You'll be fine. I'm sure your primary care doctor was merely following up on the report in the hopes of addressing any subsequent concerns you may have developed.

Best regards and Good Health

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Zarion
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Re: Conflicting information
Reply #5 - Feb 14th, 2008, 6:34pm
 
No, it wasn't ME who thought I was having episodes of ventricular tachycardia. The cardiologist's report said that he figured I'd had either ventricular tachycardia or super-ventricular tachycardia. I personally found this odd, because the highest my pulse went while I was on the cardiac monitors was around 120 bmp, and considering I was kind of panicking at the time, that doesn't seem abnormally high.

I was never actually given a copy of the report, just read sections of it, but it sounded as if it were the thoughts of the cardiologist, rather than any specific numbers. I recall one bit where he said 'There is a slight possibility that it may have been super-ventricular tachycardia with abnormality, but given the age of the patient, I don't think this is likely.'
(Actually that could have been irregularity and not abnormality, I'm afraid I can't remember)

One thing that may be worth mentioning is that this cardiologist works at an independent consulting clinic in another city altogether from the one where I had the original episode and stayed overnight in the hospital. It's occurred to me since that he may not have actually had much in the way of tangible test results from the original hospital (who seemed to have a different impression of what was happening to me). The only diagnostic the cardiologist himself did was a very short EKG. Now that I've ended up getting tests or seeing doctors at 4 separate places in 2 cities, I wonder if everyone actually had all the relevant information at their disposal. Maybe he was just speculating?

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