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supplements and vitamins (you should read this) (Read 10156 times)
RLR
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supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Apr 16th, 2008, 9:36am
 
The below study has been in the recent medical literature and has been picked up by the news media. It should not be necessarily taken as gospel, but it does coincide with my cautions to many of you about taking vitamins and supplements.




LONDON, England (CNN) -- Taking antioxidants like vitamins A and E to prolong life may actually have the opposite effect, new research has found.

Taking vitamin supplements in large quanities may actually prove detrimental to your health.

A review of 67 studies involving more than 230,000 people found "no convincing evidence" that the vitamins prolonged life, the Press Association reported.
"Even more, beta-carotene, vitamin A, and vitamin E seem to increase mortality," according to the researchers.
However, other health specialists said the research was "flawed" and the supplements were safe to take.
The review, published by The Cochrane Collaboration, involved trials on beta-carotene, vitamin A, vitamin C, vitamin E, and selenium.
The experts said the studies involved different doses of each antioxidant. A total of 232,550 people were involved.
Forty-seven trials included 180,938 people and had a low risk of bias. In these trials with a low risk of bias, the "antioxidant supplements significantly increased mortality", the report's authors wrote.
When the different antioxidants were assessed separately and low risk of bias trials were included and selenium excluded, vitamin A was linked to a 16% increased risk of dying, beta-carotene to a seven percent increased risk and vitamin E to a four percent increased risk.
However, there was no significant detrimental effect caused by vitamin C, the authors said.
"We found no evidence to support antioxidant supplements for primary or secondary prevention," they added. "Beta-carotene, vitamin A and vitamin E given singly or combined with other antioxidant supplements significantly increase mortality."
There was no evidence vitamin C increased longevity.
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"Selenium tended to reduce mortality but only when high-bias risk trials were considered. Accordingly, we need more research on vitamin C and selenium."
Goran Bjelakovic, a visiting researcher who carried out the review at Copenhagen University Hospital in Denmark, told the Press Association: "We could find no evidence to support taking antioxidant supplements to reduce the risk of dying earlier in healthy people or patients with various diseases.
"The findings of our review show that if anything, people in trial groups given the antioxidants beta-carotene, vitamin A, and vitamin E showed increased rates of mortality."
Patrick Holford, a nutritionist who has formulated some supplements for the firm Biocare, told the Press Association that the Cochrane review was a "stitch up."
"Antioxidants are not meant to be magic bullets and should not be expected to undo a lifetime of unhealthy habits," Holford said.
"But when used properly, in combination with eating a healthy diet full of fruit and vegetables, getting plenty of exercise and not smoking, antioxidant supplements can play an important role in maintaining and promoting overall health."
Dr Michele Sadler, of the Health Food Manufacturers' Association, said the analysis was "flawed."
"Healthy consumers can still feel confident that they can safely take their antioxidant supplements."
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cazza
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #1 - Apr 16th, 2008, 11:06am
 
IM GLAD I TOOK YOUR ADVICE RLR AND JUST EAT A HEALTHY AND VARIED DIET   THANKS Smiley  CAROL
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #2 - Apr 16th, 2008, 12:21pm
 
Very interesting info!

I think that really we should all be aiming to get what we need from food - as vitamins are best absorbed in this way.

But, re the survey, I find it hard to believe that unless you are overdosing on vitamins they would kill you - perhaps a bit extreme. It would be interesting to analyse the specifics of the survey - ie. the sort of people who go on a health kick, are they the sort of person that already has a health problem of some sort and wants to sort it out, and if they already have a health problem (eg. cancer / heart disease / immune disorder) then presumably they are already more 'predisposed' to dying.

You could look at it this way... taking an antidepressant probably 'predisposes' you to dying... as you are more likely to be depressed if you take one, and thus more likely to do something stupid. Surveys, surveys...  Wink

These kind of surveys drive me nuts - one day it's one thing, the next another. Scientists and occupational researchers - stick to something useful please. I think we all know by now that a healthy diet (for people who live in the West and are not short of food) is the best way to help yourself.

I just read another one the other day - the whole 2 litres of water a day debate. Apparently that all goes back to some 1950s survey that didn't take into account that all food contains water too. I bet the bottled water companies have loved this theory for years and perpetuated the myth!  Roll Eyes
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #3 - Apr 16th, 2008, 1:59pm
 
Hi,
thanks for the article RLR, very interesting.
I agree with you Bead, there seem to be numerous reports of research findings like this in the British press.
One day something is good for you, the next it's not. It drives me crazy as there are always so many contradictory reports.

I have actually been to 2 of Patrick Holfords talks & he is very inspirational. He mostly advocates healthy eating as the best way to good nutrition but obviously he also advises supplements where appropriate.He is one of the leading nutritionists in the UK.

Personally, I also think that it's best to get your nutrition mostly from food & I believe all things in moderation. However, it's believed that intensive farming & food storage affect the nutritional quality of our food so it's hard to know exactly how much goodness is actually in our 'fresh' food.

I do think supplements can help but I guess it's everything in moderation & I think everyone would agree that it should be seen as just that, a supplement rather than a replacement, for a healthy diet.

Last year I started growing my own veg in my garden & it was great to go & pick some fresh salad leaves knowing they were organic & as fresh as possible!
Seffie xx
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RLR
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #4 - Apr 16th, 2008, 3:31pm
 
Well, I'm not certain about occupational researchers, but I'll have to take quick exception to the retort that "scientists should stick to something more useful" due to the fact that I am first and foremost a scientist that simply specializes in medicine.

This is not a "survey" or a magazine article but rather a clinical investigation into a number of studies all tending to support a central theme. They have already taken into account the confounds you mentioned regarding previous health risks.

The point I originally intended to make by providing a copy of the news coverage of the study was that people can be extremly misled by what is said to be "good" for you, particularly when the claim is based upon a multi-billion dollar a year industry. For that kind of revenue, they'll tell you it represents the fountain of youth and indeed it's even been claimed.

People find it hard to question matters like this when they have no relevant basis to be skeptical. No one has a portable laboratory wherein they can obtain a daily print-out of their body's status relative to vitamin and supplement levels. The hard fact is that the deficiencies being claimed by the vitamin industry simply do not exist for the majority of the population. It's the equivalent of a feel-good proposition and through advertising, people have been made to believe that mega doses or even regular doses of daily vitamins and supplements will maintain and even improve your health.

It's a marketing ploy no different than energy drinks and any other concoction that companies can utilize to get your money, because that's the bottom line. If your health is placed in jeopardy, it's of no consequence because there are no regulations on this type of product and therefore, no one to hold accountable. You take them at your own risk and that's just the way these companies perfer it.

I will be 84 years old in July and in all those years I never took one vitamin or supplement. I'm in great health. As scientists, we know the true value which underlies these products because we understand how the body actually absorbs and utilizes them. You can take all the vitamins or supplements you care to and the only thing that gets better is the stock holdings for the company making the products you're buying. Plain and simple.

And now there's growing evidence to support that intake of some of these certain products can have a detrimental effect according to the outcome of the studies. It's simply a matter of looking at your health from a different perspective. Most people would love the idea of taking a pill to improve their health rather than eat healthy and exercise, but the truth of the matter is that eating wisely and exercising is the only method which will have the greatest impact on your daily health.

Just a reminder to aim forward with your health and try not to let the marketing folks make you believe the answer lies in a handful of vitamins and supplements. It doesn't.

Best regards and Good Health
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #5 - Apr 17th, 2008, 4:19am
 
Thanks for posting the results of the study.  I just take a multivitamin since I don't always eat healthy but am pretty good about my diet. My husband is on 1000 of Niaspan to try and improve his cholesterol numbers.  He had bypass 2 years ago. Do you think that helps?   As a funny side note my friends father was having all sorts of side affects, ultimately from Niacin, but when they fed all his symptoms into Web MD it said he was most likely pregnant!!  Another good reason to stick to the human form of medical practice!!
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Stu M
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #6 - Apr 17th, 2008, 8:33am
 
Interesting Post, I did actually see this on the news the other night.

As you may have seen from my other post I have had counter productive symptoms due to taking some suppliments, and feel a lot better for not taking any Vitamins at all.

So I would say from my experience, they dont always do you good, so just be carefull.

I for one will try the better diet and exercise although I know it can be difficult  Wink
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #7 - Apr 17th, 2008, 1:46pm
 
This is an interesting discussion. I think we are all looking for the 'magic wand' to make us healthy and feel better. It is a lot easier to think 'I will be healthy' if I take this supplement or drink that yoghurt, rather than act on eating rubbish and taking more exercise. And of course, when the supplement industry is worth so much money, only positive endorsements will find their way into the adverts.

I have a Patrick Holford book and although he basically suggests a sensible wholefood diet, I was a bit alarmed at the high doses of some supplements recommended.

I think vitamins and supplements do have a (very limited) place in the diet of a small number of people but most people can get all the nutrition they need from the food already available. It's not like there's a war on and you can't get an orange.
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #8 - Apr 17th, 2008, 1:49pm
 
Just to add, the supplement sector should be far more stringently regulated in my view. The claims for some of these products are ridiculous, and the prices extortionate. Unfortunately when people feel unwell they are likely to part with large amounts of money to try anything that will make them feel better.
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #9 - Apr 20th, 2008, 1:12am
 
Hi,
it seems that most people aren't in favour of supplements & that they are all a waste of time yet there is also scientific proof that in some cases they are of benefit, eg: taking folic acid prior to conceiving & when pregnant to reduce the risk of spina bifida, iron tablets for anaemia, St Johns Wort for mild depression-in Germany this is the option preferred by many doctors for treating depression.
Ultimately, it's an individual choice.

I think in an ideal world, there would be a more holistic approach to treating patients. That doctors, nutritionists, therapists etc all worked closely together as a team to look at your diet, lifestyle, exercise levels, emotional health etc & helped people to have as healthier a lifestyle as possible. In other words, a more individual & preventative approach to health. I did say 'in an ideal world'!! Can't ever see this happening on the NHS!!
In the UK if you get more than 10 mins with your doctor then you're lucky. My GP admitted that they give out anti-depressants like sweets. When I couldn't sleep he suggested I take the herb valerian rather than give me sleeping tablets.  

I know this is diverting from the supplements discussion slightly but there has been a programme on tv recently looking at the claims made for alternative therapies & the findings mostly came back that there was little scientific proof that these things could work.
However, in many cases people did get or feel better & they think the reason for this was that when you see one of these therapists they take the time to listen to you, they give you all their attention & are generally empathetic.
They think that this level of care & attention & the treatment that followed ( eg:massage / reflexology ) may have helped by encouraging the production of endorphins. They also think the placebo effect is very strong in these cases.

I just wish that it was possible to get some accurate & definitive advice re: these health issues. There is so much contradictory advice & information out there that sometimes it's hard to know what to do for the best!
Seffie xx
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #10 - Apr 22nd, 2008, 1:46am
 
Yes, within reason I think vitamins are worth a try but if they have side effects and if you are taking medication you have to be careful.

I bought some herbal medicine for calming but when I looked into it more, you really shouldn't mix this if you are already taking antidepressants as they anti-anxiety effects will be increased. some might say that is a good thing, but you don't want to be messing about and perhaps getting a bad reaction with side effects.

This is such an interesting discussion which leads me to the latest...  anyway, the latest UK research tells us that citalopram is a waste of time to take too. Clearly it is not, as thousands of people testify otherwise. I for one can say hand on heart that it has not made me better better, but it has enabled me to leave the house and overcome most of my anxiety and panic. It hasn't cured me but it keeps things down to manageable levels. I know it is not a placebo effect because  I have tried many other potions and vitamins and herbal remedies all of which shouldn't have had a placebo effect because I believed they would work, but they didn't.

I really wish that all the different research communities would get together and work together instead of just competing for our cash. I think it is cruel the way that there are people who want to get better from whatever illness (not just palpitations!) and yet they are pulled this way and that by the different factions trying to win us over. Vitamin manufacturers, drug companies and alternative therapies.

I really think human bodies are so complex that it is not as simple as a pill or a potion that works for one will work for all.

bead
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Re: supplements and vitamins (you should read this)
Reply #11 - May 8th, 2008, 1:55pm
 
Very interesting, I did hear about this few weeks back.

I was given vitamins occasionally when I was younger then a few years back, I took Evening Primrose Oil and Vitamin B6 to help with my PMT etc.. but stopped all that, I think you can get everything you need from food, and your body is the best indicator, it will crave what it is lacking, and you feel pants if you eat rubbish day in day out, so it's common sense.

Thank you for that RLR x
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