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Problems with beta blockers!! (Read 21415 times)
Stu M
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Problems with beta blockers!!
Jun 15th, 2007, 1:29am
 
Hi everyone,

Well Ive now been in the beta blockers since Tuesday and I have to say, I feel really ill with them, is this right?

I dont want to discontinue if this is something that will go, but also I need reassurance they will do me good.

In the past Ive only ever lasted a day or two with anti-depressants and beta blockers because they make me feel really crap, but Im trying my hardest to get things running smoothly agaian and ive promised my wife I will take them and see if they help, Im not sure what to do   Undecided

Whats happening is up until yesterday I was feeling OK, but then yesterday morning I start to get skipped beats again (beta blockers not stopping them!), but also Im getting the following symptoms...

I feel realy sick in my stomach
My heart rate is consistantly between 50 and 55 (normally 75-85, my heart rate is normally good)
Feel and look spaced out (has been commented on)
Feel like my lower rear part of my brain is burning hot
Difficulty sleeping, although Im tired all the time
My hands go to sleep (like when youve sat on them too long) especialy at night
Still getting what I call throaty palps (like a bubble under my adams apple, preasure in my neck, and some fluttery feelings in my throat)
Feel like my upper chest is full of cotton wool
And a general floaty, not quite with it
Metalic taste occasionaly in mouth

Do I continue and see what happens?, is 50bpm too low?, should I give them up?

If my skipped beats are because of stomach problems are beta blockers going to do anything anyway?

Need some help, I will continue taking for the time being, BTW forgot to mention im on propananol 80mg slow release one a day tablets.

Thanks for your help.

A still suffering Stu
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beadbabe
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #1 - Jun 15th, 2007, 1:49am
 
Hi Stu
I have tried a couple of types of beta blockers for my ectopics - at lower doses than you are on because yes the higher doses will slow your heart rate down.

I have tried propanolol and atenolol and I have to say that the atenolol did make me feel odd in different ways and I also get my arms getting pins and needles more at night than I did before taking them, so maybe that is a side effect of the tablets.

What I can also say is that they have not helped my ectopics at all, and when I was on a higher dose they were worse because more nasty little ectopics used to sneak in between the normal (but slowed down by bb's heart rate).

I am now doing 20 mg in morning and 10mg in the evening of propanolol and this has worked the best for me so far, but I sitll get ectopics all day every day. But it has lessened the frequency of racing heart episodes from three or four times per week to one or two. Not great really. But I often wonder why I am bothering. Really the cardiologist has told me they are optional. I do suffer from anxiety very badly so my heart problems are probably caused by too much adrenaline going round my body (as I never had heart issues before getting anxiety but it's a whole vicious circle of nastiness).

I have started taking antidepressants for anxiety about a month ago and the side effects from those are hellish. But those side effects are starting to go away and I have moments of clarity again so maybe they are starting to work. (I absolutely hate taking medication but I have come to think that sometimes side effects are worth it for long term gain).
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Stu M
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #2 - Jun 15th, 2007, 2:18am
 
Hi Beadbabe,

Yes I hate taking meds with a passion, it somehow makes me feel Im not in control.  So i guess this makes me a bit stressed by just taking them (not good huh!)

And when you take medication, and you still get skipped beats I can understand you asking the question, should I realy bother?  But as ive never realy stayed on medication for more than a week, ive never had the answer to that, the side effect symptoms, along with the control issue have always made me quit and state I will get over it on my own!!

Whether this is right or not I dont know?  Thats why im at a bit of a crossroads this time, I want to get better for myself and my family but not with meds if they wont help.

Plus I have the help of this forum this time so I can ask question before doing anything  Grin I just need to know whether to continue for a while I suppose, will it get better.  I know this is the million dollar question, but perhaps RLR can give his opinion from a medical standpoint on whether any of those symptoms are worth worrying about?

Stu
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #3 - Jun 15th, 2007, 3:41am
 
Yes, Stu, you have to decide for yourself that you need to get better with or without medication. Sometimes medication will give you the space you need to do that. (My GP put it well to me when she said that 'if it was as easy as pulling your socks up you would have done that ages ago'.) You may need to work really hard at getting better - I don't have the answers I'm afraid but I am just about to do some cognitive behaviour therapy. The psychologist said that palpitations are more likely in the presence of stress or anxiety, so perhaps tackling the anxiety will go a long way to alleviating the symptoms. The same may or may not be true for you.

You say you are having GI problems that cause the ectopics. But GI problems are also exacerbated by anxiety so have you thought that if you were able to work on the anxiety this might get better and the ectopics could be miraculously resolved too? (I sometimes see you on NMP, so I have the feeling you are anxious too.)

I'm sure RLR will be here later to talk to you but all the side effects could be anxiety regarding taking the medications, some mild effects from being new to the beta blockers, and the others are just your heart beat playing up as it does normally. My cardiologist told me that beta blockers don't work for everyone with ectopics. In fact the recommended treatment for ectopics in people with a normal heart is 'nothing'. I read a very good article in the British Heart Journal recommended by my cardiologist which basically said no treatment is required. Although you have to decide you may feel better taking something or not.

Best of luck to you  Stu.
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #4 - Jun 15th, 2007, 11:24am
 
Beta blockers can certainly cause nausea in some patients and will have an impact on resting heart rate, as well as threshold under exertion. 50bpm is not "too slow." The only factor that would weigh against the use of beta blockers is hypotension that induces lethargy, fainting spells, etc. If your question is whether they would "stop" your heart, the answer is no. I would suspect that the metallic taste is due to the anti-depressant rather than the beta blocker and the "throaty" sensation is more likely a consequence of your GI issues. None of the symptoms, however, would be suggestive of anything serious.

Before you make a decision about terminating or altering your course of medication, it is always wise to discuss your options with your primary care doctor.  You'll be fine.

Best regards and Good Health
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« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2007, 8:55am by RLR »  

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Stu M
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #5 - Jun 15th, 2007, 3:35pm
 
Thanks everyone,

Ive decided to continue with the medication for the short term and judge the results.  

I think I have a fear of these meds which feeds my anxiety, so I will try to break that link.

Anyway Im off for a weeks break with my family, Im hoping it will be a restfull week (heres hoping).

I hope you all have an anxiety and palpitation free week.  Smiley

Stu

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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #6 - Jun 17th, 2007, 1:36am
 
Hi

No I don't think it's right, and most pins and needles are due to poor circulation, look at when you've leant on your arm to long  and you've cut the blood supply a bit your hand goes pins and needley, 50 BPM is pretty low,  BB are I think just to slow your heart rate, my friend was given them years ago only for a short while when she first found out she had a thyroid problem her heart was so fast all the time over 170BPM.  I'm sure I've read somewhere on here before that they will not be able to stop missed or fluttery beats.

I mean if it's only really bad on exercising and you get a few here a there each day of that then why go on medication that makes you feel bad all the time, when really your heart is fine and you don't need to be on them to keep you alive! It would be different if they made you feel better!

I think you should get yourself back to the doctors and either ask then to show you how to stop them, try a different one or go on a lower dose!

Maybe I'm wrong as I'm no doctor and I'm sure RLR will correct me if I've got it wrong.  But feeling that rough is not "Normal" (Whatever normal is)

This is just my opinion if your doctor has strongly recommended you should go on them or that they would help you then ok, but I still think it would be best to go back, as surely you felt better before you were put on the beta blockers?

Kath x
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #7 - Jun 17th, 2007, 2:08pm
 
Well, 50bpm is not too slow in the presence of beta blocker therapy and as a physician, I've observed hundreds of patients on such therapy with identical results. This does not constitute a problem in of itself.

"Pins and Needles" are due to mild nerve compression and are not the consequence of reduced blood supply in any manner. The actual reduction of blood supply to a limb or even the distal portion of a limb causes intense pain, not pins and needles. It is a common misconception by many people that this symptom is the consequence of reduced blood supply, or ischemia, and I remind all of you here that it is not the case. When you "lean on an arm or leg" you can potentially compress the nerves innervating the distal portion of the limb, causing mild parasthesia that you experience as pins and needles.

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Kathryn
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #8 - Jun 17th, 2007, 11:36pm
 
There see

They say you learn something new every day!  Smiley  I really thought it was blood supply, even though that didn't make much sense, quite reassuring that it's not though.

I wasn't saying it was too slow, it's just my husbands friends wife had a heart rate of 50 - 55 BPM and she needed an operation and they said it would be too dangerous to operate on her whilst her heart was that slow, so she use to have to do things to try and up it, thats why I thought it wasn't good to have a heart rate that slow.

Sorry for the wrong information there

Kath x
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #9 - Jun 18th, 2007, 3:58am
 
Okay, this is a good case and point. The person you refer to likely had bradycardia (slow heart rate) from reasons other than beta blocker therapy, which can be of significant concern with regarding to any considerations for surgery and the associated anesthesia.

You can't observe someone's case and generalize it to the population. That's the reason that you're having difficulty with your own situation.

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Kathryn
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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #10 - Jun 18th, 2007, 11:32am
 
Perhaps I'm being a bit naive but if it's not ideal for someone to have bracycardia without medication then why is it different when you are?  (apart from you can stop the medication) Just out of curiousity?

Without sounding funny, I think your comment was a bit generalized itself, I think the whole time I've posted here that is probably the first time I have ever done that, I don't normally give advice or make a comment about other peoples situations I usually use my own experiences, and I am not usually that matter of fact either.  

Yes I am having difficulties at the moment, but I know thats because theres alot on me at the moment, it takes alot out of you and alot of mind power, and when you have 101 things other than coping and trying not to think negatively it's sometimes nice to write and share how you are feeling as its feels like you are momentarily not having that all on your own, and when people you have never met reply and just give you a few reassuring comments and just reliterate what you are thinking sometimes anyway, it's nice, they don't have to as they don't know me, sometimes thats not so easy for those around you.

But it was a good example and thats why I normally do not usually  Smiley make statements on things I am not at least 90% sure on.

Thank you

Kath x

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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #11 - Jun 18th, 2007, 2:12pm
 
Good Question. Here's the answer; Noteworthy bradycardia in the absence of treatment that would cause it is a potential indicator of cardio-pathology that needs to be investigated further. In the consideration for surgery, such an underlying condition could cause complications as a consequence of the effects of anesthesia which tends to lower heart rate and general metabolism.  

You are focusing on the bradycardia itself and that's not the issue. It's the underlying cause of the bradycardia that's of significance. If the cause is merely medication, then there's no reason to consider that something else has caused the change in heart rate. If bradycardia is present in the absence of beta-blocker therapy or other medication which can lower the normal resting heart rate, then we begin to suspect a physiological cause. There are rare instances in some highly trained and conditioned athletes who have an extraordinarily low resting heart rate in the 50 range.

In general,bradycardia is not considered problematic unless the patient is experiencing negative symptoms, ie fainting, etc.

As for the remainder of your response, you have the tendency to address such matters in a defensive context. None of the postings here are intended to offend you in any manner, Kathryn. Whenever anyone makes a posting concerning medical fact that is incorrect, it is my responsibility to speak out and clarify the matter. I do so in a very straight-forward manner from a logical perspective.

Whenever I hear someone mention that they have 101 things to cope with, I'm always constrained to point out that it's more likely 100 things to worry about and 1 to cope with, because you can only effectively deal with the matter at hand. It takes a lot out of anyone who approaches things that way because they tend to be in a chronic state of being overwhelmed and negative thinking as a consequence is almost assured. Worrying is not an active process at all, but rather entirely passive, meaning that you can worry all you care to and nothing will change at all until you actively do something to affect its course.  

The key is training yourself to apply the majority of your focus to matters that you can directly influence and change for purposes of gain. The rest must await its time and place. This is the land where folks with anxiety live, 101 steps beyond the occurrance of anything. It provides for the multiplication of potential outcomes that are typically influenced by negative thought patterns. Anything becomes possible because there is nothing to frame the speculation into the logical world. It simply drives the mechanism by which the anxiety-stricken person must abide.

Best regards and Good Health  

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Re: Problems with beta blockers!!
Reply #12 - Jun 19th, 2007, 12:18am
 
Thank you,

I suppose I do respond defensively, but I actually was not doing so and was just trying to explain my situation, and if I do not always agree I will say, but it's never meant in a rude or cross way, thats not me.

Yes you can only deal with 1 thing at a time, but it's not that easy it's not so much the physically dealing with something it's mentally coping with all the information and prioritising, I have a calender and write everything down, but I am the only one in my household who has all that responsibilty, my husband is lovely, but his life is relatively easy when it comes to the house the children and money I usually deal with all of it, aswell as myself and my duties at work. Yes I have tried to delegate but to no use, also my husband has 2 jobs and works 6 days a week from 5.30am - 10pm 3 of those days and only really has a whole Sunday off every week, so I do not like to burden him with too much either.  But when I don't feel 100% myself I don't want to have to deal with any of it! but obviously have too.

Thanks for your response and the explaination on bracycardia, very interesting.

Kath x

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