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12 skipped beats in a row!! (Read 25291 times)
Steff1573
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12 skipped beats in a row!!
Aug 17th, 2008, 8:09am
 
So I am on my journey in accepting these...  I have been doing relatively well.  I woke up at 5:30 this morning due to my heart skipping beats..  So of course I felt my pulse because it didn't "feel right" and it skipped 12 beats in a ROW with no normal beat in between them.

Okay, so I could deal with 3-4, but 12!!  Isn't this sustained ventricular tachycardia?  Couldn't this be serious?

I am trying to get past these but new symptoms keep occurring!

RLR please shed some light on this for me.  I don't know if you have ever encountered this, or what your thoughts are, but again your help is much appreciated. I am not going to let this get the best of me, but I need to know if its dangerous in any way, or if I need to so something about it.

If anyone else had similar experiences,please share..

Thanks a bunch!

Steff
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RLR
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #1 - Aug 17th, 2008, 10:58am
 
the characteristics of the palpitations can vary widely, but it does not constitute SVT. These are not "new symptoms" at all but merely variations of the same symptom. You have erroneously made it a rule in your mind that the symptoms are not permitted to change or reflect any degree of dynamics, yet it is a medical fact that this symptom is extremely dynamic in nature. You are making an inaccurate comparison between your symptoms and known variants of arrhythmias. This is a phase that persons with anxiety disorder experience and it represents the moving target syndrome. In other words, the affected individual rationalizes that if 2 abherent beats represent nothing harmful, then what about 3, then 4 and so on. They ask "well when is it going to constitute something dangerous?" The answer has always been, and will continue to be, never.

You have to realize that you simply don't have the ability to accurately diagnose yourself. This is not something that you will ever resolve with speculation and fear and, in fact, constitutes the actual underlying force that's driving what you are experiencing in the way of symptoms.

Please carefully read my response to thepanicgirl that exists in a 3-part response aimed at discussing health anxiety.

You do not have heart disease of any kind. Now that's not going to change simply because of your fears regarding the matter. You are trying to introduce an irrational proposition into the world of reality and it will never, ever come to pass. It's an impossibility.

You have to stop looking at the problem from the standpoint that it constitutes some type of pathology. Regardless of how the symptom presents itself, it does not suddenly constitute a whole new realm for concern.

Again, you are not sick and you do not have heart disease. I'm trying to tell you that your assessments are patently wrong. Sooner or later you're going to have to accept that your speculations are entirely in error.

Your "journey" is not about accepting the palpitations. It's about coming to understand what they actually represent, which is a factor that so far, you've elected to ignore. By your own statements, it's clear that you still believe your own assessment to be the one that's accurate, yet you have no shred of tangible proof. You remain fixated that the symptom has an underlying physical cause which is potentially life-threatening.

My suggestion is to read the posting I mentioned, along with the postings of others like Kathryn and KCHendrix. These people were in the same phase you are now experiencing. Your circumstances are not unique or special. You need to break free of the belief that your fears are warranted. They are not.

Incidentally, there are cases wherein patients have temporarily experienced more than 1000 benign palpitation events per hour or more, yet they remain entirely harmless. Certainly 12 in a row is sublime by comparison. I realize that they frighten you, but it's because you remain convinced that they can harm you at some point. The type of palpitations you are experiencing can never change into something deadly. They can't for you or anyone else, ever. It's a medical fact that can't be argued.

You'll be fine.

Best regards and Good Health
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Steff1573
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #2 - Aug 17th, 2008, 6:50pm
 
Thanks RLR..  I really am tryong hard to not worry, I really am.  It's hard some days!  I am getting 15-30 pvc's every minute which is easily which is 1500-1800 per minute every day!  What I meant by 10 pvc's in a row, was 10 pvc's back to back with no normal beat in between them, and with that the regular 15-30 pvc's per minute.  

The pvc's "back to back, ex: skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, THEN beat, beat, and skip, pvc, etc...  That is what scared me....

I am trying to accept these and am trying to take your advice.  It's not that I am trying to ignore the advice you give me. I use your advice every single day!

I am just tired of getting these.  I can go hours in a day where I can ignore the 15-30 a minute that I get all day, because I am getting use to them, but when I get "runs of them back to back with no beat in between," then I get more concerned.

So my question was not that these are dangerous in the regular amount (15-30 a minute, all day everyday), but rather the 10 pvc's I had in a row.....  I hope that makes sense...

Could you shed some light on this?  

Again, thank you for your time and expertise.  It does not go unnoticed at all.  You have helped me in more ways than you know and I hope someday, someday soon I can say, "Hey, I am doing much better and have worried less" but its going to take some work and time on my part.

Thanks again..

Steff   Smiley
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #3 - Aug 18th, 2008, 3:50pm
 
Okay, please re-read my posting to you. I explained that regardless of the dynamics associated with the palpitations, they nevertheless constitute the same issue and not something new. I'm trying to explain to you that 10 or 12 palpitations rather than 3 or 4 is not a new symptom, nor does it represent a prelude to anything more serious.

Again, your comments refer to trying to "stop worrying" and "accepting" the palpitations. I'm constrained to point out that I could offer endless responses to you and until you pause and read with clear understanding of what's actually happening, then you will be unable to stop worrying. If you had been able to do this, then you would know that the change in frequency does not constitute a new symptom and that regardless of the presentation, they cannot harm you. This has to be the focus for you and not whether something new is occurring that now represents potential danger.

In essence, you are frightening yourself into believing something is wrong despite all facts to the contrary. You are seeking out a target to associate with the fear and it's irrational to do so. There is nothing wrong with your heart.

I understand that you want the symptoms to go away, but as I've already stated, you are driving your anxiety higher and increasing your symptoms as a consequence.

I suppose the question at this point would be how far you intend to deny the facts as they exist? Ask yourself whether you have any justifiable information that would logically permit you to remain fixated like this? If you cannot produce actual facts, not something you've read somewhere or something that someone said happened to someone else, but real scientific objective data, then the only other direction for you to proceed is to admit that your perceptions and instincts are incorrect.

If you can begin to understand that it is your fear which is producing the symptoms, then you will have taken a step in the right direction.

Again, 12 palpitations in a row does not constitute anything other than benign palpitations, nor can it somehow magically result in PSVT. It just can't. You have to understand how that works in order to make such speculation. It cannot happen in your case. And of course I've observed it before. Listen, you are not unique under any circumstances. You can't continue to try and place yourself in some special category so that it would possibly justify your continued concerns and fears. Your symptoms and condition are no different that other members here.

You are causing your own symptoms. Do you understand how that works? You have to stop and read what I've explained about this in order to at least raise the question of whether or not you may be wrong.

You're going to be fine.

Best regards and Good Health
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Steff1573
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #4 - Aug 18th, 2008, 7:18pm
 
I know you are right, RLR.  All I was trying to point out is a change in symptoms and the only basis that I have to worry right now is the change in pvc's.  When the pvc's changed in frequency and duration that is when I started to get concerned that changing symptoms meant something was going wrong.  But I understand what are getting at. That the symptoms are not 'new' and will still be benign.  I know the more I worry the more my adrenaline stays increased, and the more symptoms I will get as a result of worrying that something bad will happen.

It's not that I enjoy worrying, I hate it so much!  Sure we all think: "I wish these would just go away" because they are annoying, uncomfortable and frightening.  And being frightened by them is only natural.  I understand that they are benign and does not constitute a life threatening problem, nor does it mean something is changing in my heart.  I realize the only thing changing is my anxiety in regard to them, but that is the tough part for me.  Is not being scared when I get them.  

When I get many, many per minute, it's an awful feeling and I do get distressed over them, even though I know they are benign.  Just feeling them upsets me, because like us all we wish they would "go away."  

I know the root of my problem is the worry about them, hence increasing them.  So I really need to work on that by realizing how they happen (the feedback loop, ie: worry, vagus stimulation, pvc's, worry, etc, etc, etc)...  And I will be honest and say that it will take me awhile to come to terms with these.  It certainly won't happen overnight and noone can give me a magic pill to make these go away, so I just have to learn to relax and understand where they are coming from.

I just visited my Cardiologist today...

She listened to my heart and heard the pvc's.  An EKG was done and of course none showed up in that 2 min's (always happens that way!), but she also said she wanted to repeat the echo.  Which I had done as well today.  I do not have the results from that yet, but do know my ejection fraction was 55%, which I guess is normal.  The Tech said as far as he could see everything looked okay, except for a small leak in my valve.

She said my QT measurement on EKG was 358, which I suppose is good, right?

My Cardio also wanted to order a 48 holter, but I asked her would it change anything to know if I am having way more than usual and she said "not really."  The prognosis would still remain the same, so I opted out of doing the holter.  Simply because if I had an actual NUMBER of those pvc's, then I know I would just worry more. So that as a GOOD starting point for me was so deny more testing, and focus on the root problem.  So I am going to let it be and try and focus on my worry/anxiety instead.  I am on no meds either for them.

The Cardio said they will increase and decrease in frequency.  But that it is good that I be evaluated any time they increase like that.  She wants to see me in 3 months.

At this point, I know what I need to do.  I have the tools within myself, I need to put them to good use.  I will let you know how I am getting alone.

Thank you for your honest advice.  I know you have seen this stuff before and have much experience with it.  I also know that you know your stuff and I have to trust in what you say and the advice you give.

Lastly, I want to say thanks again.   I know I have been a royal PITA!  I am sorry for that.

Steff    Embarrassed
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kchendrix
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #5 - Aug 19th, 2008, 5:40am
 
Hang in there Steff..   you have to really believe now in what your Doctor told you..  you have to trust this answer instead of trusting yourself.   Your palps will decrease as your fear decreases.    Because of the annoying frequency which keeps you worked up....  did your doc suggest a low dose beta blocker or anything... I'm no doctor but maybe it may help a little..      Maybe you could also go get some professional therapy on a regular basis.   It really does help to talk about the fear and try to get to the bottom of it..  

I am discovering a lot of where my fear and anxiety may have started from , and how I associated it with health worries instead of the real issues...  

As far as symptom changing  RLR is absolutely right,,  ( He always is  Smiley )    It is like we are always wanting it to be something different.  Mine started stomach,  then heart ,  then changes in the heart rate, blood pressure etc...   I am not saying you aren't having these  because I know you are, but if we keep a vigil over ourself 24 hours a day, we aren't living.  

I asked myself.. what would I do if God forbid they said oh yes this is what is wrong with your heart and now we are going to fix it with ablation, or open heart surgery...     Guess what you would temporarily feel vindicated   but then you would start to worry about how they were going to fix it , and what could go wrong etc...   your worries will shift. It's almost like some of us are predisposed to worry a lot.

Learn relaxation excercises and practice them.  Meditation may help, but try to accept what the doctor is saying.    My doctor told me that if it was ever truly something serious  don't you think he would do everything possible to uncover it?   Malpractice insurance  isn't cheap and he wants to dot all of his  "i"s  and cross all of his "t"s  to make sure you are well before he declares you well..   If he suspected one thing wrong,  you would be the first to know....  So relax , breathe some deep breaths and try... one foot in front of the other .   This is scary I know,  I am can see a lot of work a head of me yet but we have to be willing to work on the fear...

Best regards
Kevin
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thepanicgirl
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #6 - Aug 19th, 2008, 5:48am
 
Great input Kevin. In fact RLR told me to reach out for me since you are doing so well now dealing with your health anxiety (I suffer from it too but I learn a lot from this forum)

So thanks a lot, you are very right about the fact that our worries have a tendency to shift. But being here on the forum is great "education".

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Steff1573
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #7 - Aug 19th, 2008, 5:56am
 
Thanks again Kevin.  I appreciate your advice and I know you too are so right about this stuff.  it's just really hard some days.  When we have something going on in our hearts we just want it to be fixed, end of story.  But when nothing is wrong and we are having symptoms, we get scared and worry more that something is over looked.  

But like RLR said, tests are based on an algorhytm scale and are sensitive to pick up abnormalities and if none exist the test is truly negative.  And I have to believe that and work on the anxiety issues.  Which I do have!  

I know at a time you were once where I was at in this process.  It's no easy thing to go through, but look how far you have come in working on the root problem!  I know I can do it too, I just have to put my fears aside, trust and relax and work on the worrying/anxiety.  I am going to make an appt with my counselor.  Maybe see if I can get on some anxiety meds.  Although I don't always "feel" anxious, I know it is deep rooted and carries itself with me at all times.  I am constantly on guard for the worse to happen.  I guess that is the hardest for me is that I don't readily feel anxious, nor have panic attacks, etc.  But like I said, I know the anxiousness is within me all the time, I am just so use to it.

I guess a lot of this for me besides the anxiety, which I am not denying, is when I was going through a lot of symptoms before my MS Dx, I was so so so scared.  I did not know what was wrong, but knew something was wrong if that makes sense.  Noone would listen or believe me, yet I was in bad shape at the time.  Finally after much testing, and ruling out other things, I was Dx with Multiple Sclerosis.  For me it was more of a relief to know that my symptoms were not all in my head.  

I guess my point is that, when I started getting the pvc's, my automatic thoughts were, "something is wrong here" and I started getting the feelings I had before my MS Dx when noone seemed to care except my neurologist.  

But I know that the tests have been negative and I must believe in that and work on my anxiety/stress/worrying.

Like I told RLR it's not easy, but nothing in life is designed to be easy.

We can all do this together...

I am thinking of you and am proud of you Kevin.  You have come so far!  Thanks for supporting us on here as well..

Take care,

Steff
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #8 - Aug 19th, 2008, 4:59pm
 
Okay Stef, realize that I'm not trying to hurry you along before you're ready. That's not the intent of my postings. I simply want you to start going back and reading the postings that you are making and how they relate to my responses. It is important for you to reflect upon how you're integrating the information being provided.

I think it's absolutely wonderful that you elected to forego yet another confirmatory holter. The results will only reveal the same negative results. I think this may well be a turning point for you in that you are beginning to realize that the palpitations are not life-threatening or even harmful. The fact that you can turn away from reassurance like this literally means you are willing to accept more self-reliance and that's a very big step.

Things will improve. I promise. You have to simply set your fears aside and begin working to better understand how they work and more precisely, why they are unable to harm you. Does that make sense? In other words, if you obtain a sound working knowledge of why the palpitations cannot harm you, then it represents a point of self-reliance and security for you to rely upon. I can tell you the facts all day long but until you accept it as fact for yourself, then you'll continue to have problems.

The echocardiogram will turn out just fine. You have a healthy heart and you just need to boost your self-confidence to the extent you can exercise better control over you fears.

You'll be just fine.

Best regards and Good Health
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Steff1573
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #9 - Aug 19th, 2008, 6:55pm
 
Thank you RLR.  Thank you for everything.  At the moment my pvc's are still constant at 1 ovc every 3-4 beats and its been this way for a long time.  But you know what?  I am not going to let them get to me anymore!  I know the more I give them my worry the more they will keep occurring and it will be that much longer before they ablate.  And I am not willing to let them get to me to the extent I did before.  No way!

Thanks again.  Today is my husband's 32nd Birthday, and that is far more deserving of my attention than my stupid pvc's.  Not to mention my daughter just had surgery to have her tonsils taken out yesterday and she too deserves much attention!  =o)

Thanks again RLR.

Steff   Smiley
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Re: 12 skipped beats in a row!!
Reply #10 - Aug 20th, 2008, 9:11am
 
You're going to do well once you start talking about these issues, you know even though you got your MS Diagnosed.. there are probably a lot of things under that category you are worried about and even though you don't feel anxious,  the constant release of adrenaline  because of the fear of the palps will keep you having them more often.  It is hard to get a hold of it,  in our heads when we are so upset..  Take it a step at a time work with your therapist.   As for me  I have a long way to go , but I am going to keep on working on these issues and try to live each day to the fullest one day at a time.   That's all we have anyway  is the right now...  we aren't even guarenteed the next second,  so try to enjoy the right now,  work on the underlying fear with your therapist and I will bet you will feel better..

Take Care
Kevin
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