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RLR I am new here, and very scared. (Read 13456 times)
Siamouno
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RLR I am new here, and very scared.
Aug 31st, 2008, 1:08pm
 
I found this board through my menopause website and I have been reading here for a few days. I decided to post today hoping that RLR can ease my mind. I am female, going through menopause, and I am 52 years old. I have had off and on palpitations since I was 20. They didn't happen very often but they were most disconcerting when they did. Sometimes it felt like my heart was not going to start again. When I entered perimenopause at 43, the palpitations went haywire. I started having lots of them every day all day long. Had tests, dr. said not to worry, just benign palpitations, learn to live with them, etc. As I got closer to 50, they began to settle down again, but I have never been palpitation free. Most of the time I will just experience a skipped beat or two every day, but there have been times I have had runs of them, and about two weeks after I had my gallbladder removed a year ago I started having 5 or 6 ectopics a minute. Went to the ER and they gave me an Ativan, monitored me for a while and told me that although I was having many PVC's they were harmless, and not to worry. Sent me home. That episode lasted a full 36 hours. Then the palpitations calmed down again. They are tolerable most days, thankfully. They still scare me though.

There never seems to be any rhyme or reason to when they will occur, to how many I will have, or to the character of them. Sometimes it will just be a single skipped beat during the day. Sometimes several an hour, sometimes several a day, but the most scary kind is when I will be doing something, like bending over and my heart will feel like it is fluttering for a few seconds. It feels like it is not even beating normally, just quivering. This kind of palpitation doesn't happen very often, maybe once or twice a year, but it happened today when I was sitting on the floor to adjust a DVD stand that I had just put together. I have also had this kind of strange fluttering happen at rest though. Needless to say, this kind scares me the most, and every time it happens it is immediately followed by a hot flash and the urgent need to go to the bathroom for a bowel movement.

RLR, would you please be so kind as to give me some reassurance that I am okay? I am crying right now because it has been over a year since I had this scary fluttery kind of palpitation. I get so afraid that is it some weird and dangerous rhythm that my heart will not recover from and my heart will stop and I will die.

Last year was a rough year for me. In April 2007, I had to have an emergency hysterectomy due to hemorrhaging. My heart behaved beautifully while I was under anesthesia. Then in Sept. 2007, I had a laparoscopic cholecystectomy. Again, my heart did not have one irregular beat during surgery, although two weeks later I did get that 36 hour run of frequent palpitations. And I am still going through menopause. So my life has been stressful, and I know that can contribute. I do have generalized anxiety disorder also, and I am in therapy for that.

Since I am 52, of course I worry about heart disease. My husband had a heart attack when he was only 47, back in 2003. That didn't exactly do anything to help me with my fear of my palpitations. It made my fear worse.

I have read all the information posted about the vagus nerve and it's relation to palpitations, and I understand it for the most part. Since I have digestive issues I imagine that can be contributing. My gallbladder is gone, but I still have IBS.

I am sorry that this post is so long, so I do apologize for that. Let me say that I think it is wonderful that you take the time to help people here on this forum. Thank you. I hope you can reassure me that I am okay.

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Re: RLR I am new here, and very scared.
Reply #1 - Aug 31st, 2008, 2:19pm
 
Hi, I saw your post and just wanted to say welcome to the forum. RLR will be along later, or maybe tomorrow, to give you some good advice.

My missed beats started after an operation and like you they have caused me a lot of anguish. Also, I too later underwent a hysterectomy.

If you have had all the relevant tests, then it is unlikely that your palpitations are anything to worry about. If your heart is structurally sound, then skips or palpitations are not causing any harm. At first I had thousands a day, now they come and go every few weeks or so. even though I had so many, I was still told I was okay. That was 4 years ago.

Any heart problem, heart disease, structural problem,  would have come to light during monitoring during your hysterectomy. It may help to read some of the other posts - there are so many people on here who feel exactly like you do. I have realised that I can't do much about the skipped beats, but I can work on the anxiety. Best wishes.
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Re: RLR I am new here, and very scared.
Reply #2 - Aug 31st, 2008, 2:42pm
 
Well Hello and welcome to the forum. Listen, you're going to be just fine. I promise. Let's spend a few minutes talking about your concerns.

The first concern I want to address is what you are feeling during these fluttering events and what's actually happening. Sensation can be a very deceiving event. Many persons describe what they feel as a buzzing or fluttering of their heart and state that during the event, it also presents them with sort of an overall numbing effect that feels as though they've been briefly shut off from the world around them. It also has been described as is things are in a state of being turned off, so to speak, which is largely what brings about a state of fear, panic in some cases.

The heart, however, is not actually being prevented from doing its job in any manner. Blood is still pumping just as it needs to and the heart's normal pacer is unaffected. What you are experiencing is a parasympathetic spike and it's why the consequence leaves you with the sudden urge to evacuate. Let's look at some physiology to see why this is the case.

The vagus nerve, as you've been reading, is the largest mixed nerve in the body and extends from the brain all the way to the GI tract, where it innervates the area more commonly as the gastric nerve. But let's back up a little so we can see what this nerve is and how it does its job. The nervous system is divided into the sympathetic and parasympathetic tracts. You can think of the sympathetic nervous system as the gas pedal. It's responsible for accelerating the heart rate, respiration, altering blood flow and importantly for this discussion - diminishing GI activity. You see, all of these changes are necessary in response to something known as the fight or flight response, an innate mechanism that prepares the body for either combat or escape from what the brain has perceived through feedback to be danger.

Think of the parasympathetic nervous system then, as the brakes. It's responsible for slowing the heart rate, respiration, returning blood flow to base level functions and again importantly here- increasing GI motility. Fight or flight responses occur quite regularly in all humans at various points in time, with the caveat that this frequency is most typically associated with a salient event with a close temporal relationship. What I mean by that is that something in the immediate environment that is detected by the senses produces feedback to the brain that signals danger, ie a bad dog running toward you with its teeth exposed. The eyes see the dog, the ears hear it and most importantly, the mind has already been trained to such an event, either first-hand or by watching it occur through another medium like television. These sensory inputs immediately invoke the fight or flight response so the body can fend off the dog or run from it.

At this point, the sympathetic nervous system is in full swing and your heart may be racing, you may feel a sinking feeling in your stomach and a sense of extreme vigilence or alterness to the danger to the avoidance of all else around you. Now let's suppose that the dog is suddenly called by its owner and turns the other direction. Now the parasympathetic nervous system is invoked by feedback that you now see and hear taking place. You may experience a pounding heart, a tightening sensation in the throat, and a sudden need to void. Surely you've heard folks exclaim in the presence of such an event; "That nearly made my heart stop!" or "my heart skipped a beat!"

Sound familiar in any way? Well, it should because what's happening to you is derived through the exact same process, the fight or flight response. Imaging that, an entirely normal physiological process that is engaging when there's no bad dog around. How is that possible?

It's quite simple, indeed. Under considerable stress and or anxiety, the body begins to undergo physiological changes that are approximations of the fight or flight response. The brain is receiving feedback that is being interpreted as danger. This typically happens in the patient with health anxiety because they've interpreted these changes as symptoms of something serious. This is not an unreasonable conclusion to derive because they are unable to logically associate it with a salient event, ie a bad dog or similar stimulus. For most patients in this predicament, it's usually the heart that becomes the focus. It's the pump that keeps everything else going and if it's demonstrating even the most subtle change, it's a sign that something is about to go terribly wrong, but with the added feature of absolute unpredictability.

In cases where palpitations have not yet arisen, many life conditions can create anxiety sufficient enough to produce physical symptoms associated with the fight or flight response and others including poor sleep quality, aches and pains, changes in vision, GI disturbances, etc.

If the anxiety event is capital enough, it can predominate one's daily thoughts, turning them more into ruminations that remain fixed in an unpredictable state. In the case of your husband's unfortunate heart attack, it might represent concerns that life that you experience with him could end at any moment, or at least uncertainty about your future together. It's a sense that one's control over their present destiny is being challenged.

CONTINUED IN PART II
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Re: RLR I am new here, and very scared.
Reply #3 - Aug 31st, 2008, 3:00pm
 
CONTINUED FROM PART I

Okay, so now you should have a pretty good basic idea of how the body can bring about physiological changes to stressful events. And realize that menopause is certainly a physically stressful event that produces many changes in the body. Many women complain of palpitations among their other symptoms.

With regard to the GI tract and IBS, it is a functional disorder that occurs in women more than men and typically first appears at about 26 years of age or so. It is a dysfunction in the colon's re-uptake of water and is under the control of the parasympathetic nervous system. It can be quite debilitating in some patients with an unpredictability factor all to its own. There is an association between patients with IBS and anxiety disorder as well.

The palpitations are a direct influence of vagus nerve activity and as I've explained on other postings, you can think of it sort of like dialing the wrong telephone number. The electrical signal reaches the incorrect destination but neither the recipient or their telephone becomes damaged by the event. It's merely an incorrect signal being responded to in a normal fashion. The same holds true for the heart during a palpitation event such as the ones you are experiencing. The nervous system is in a state of mild dysregulation subsequent to chronic stress. The heart is simply responding to the signal imposed by the vagus nerve. It does not interrupt the heart nor place you in any danger of a cardiac event of any type. These signals vary greatly from patient to patient, but they all constitute the same source. It will never be the case that a palpitation of this type can transform into any dangerous arrhthmia as well. As I've said to others, in over 40 years of practice I've never even once heard of palpitations of this type causing any person to suffer a cardiac event. Not even once.

Your heart will continue to behave "beautifully" because there is nothing structurally or electrically wrong with it. The palpitations do not originate from any source of pathology which produces different types of characteristic arrhythmias that are always confused with the benign palpitations such as those you and others here are experiencing. It is this uncertainty and erroneous association that plummets the confidence of patients into the realm of fear and uncertainty. Like so many others on the forum, it represents the training of the mind to interpret these palpitations as potententially very dangerous. It is an innate characteristic to almost automatically associate physical symptoms with physical illness and people are trained to do this as well. In this case, however, the senses themselves are in a state of dysregulation, so what you feel and subjectively interpret, is far and away different that what is actually taking place.

Take a deep breath and relax. You've got a long, long way to go yet and these palpitations represent absolutely no threat to your life in any manner. Indeed, they can be frightening but they will never, ever transform into anything dangerous.

Go buy a new outfit and head out for dinner and dancing with your husband.

Trying to measure life itself must unavoidably involve predictions. Living life, by contrast, must always exclude fervent prediction. Otherwise, it's a mere waiting game and a very boring one under such circumstances. Go have fun.

You'll be just fine. We'll talk more.

Best regards and Good Health



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Siamouno
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Re: RLR I am new here, and very scared.
Reply #4 - Sep 2nd, 2008, 9:52am
 
RLR thank you for helping to ease my fears. A couple more questions. Sometimes, I have had episodes where my heart will race for a short time. I was told it was panic attacks, but it happens out of the blue when I am not feeling the least bit anxious. And it doesn't happen often at all. Do the racing beats have the same cause as the skipped ones? Also do palpitations run in families?...my mother, grandmother, and both my daughters suffer with palpitations, both the racing and the skipped beat varieties. Thank you so much for listening and for your reassurance.
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Reply #5 - Sep 2nd, 2008, 3:17pm
 
Brief mild tachycardia events, rates between 100 and 140 BPM are certainly within the realm of symptoms associated with anxiety and panic disorder. Like the palpitations, they do not constitute any type of pathology or danger to you. The body experiences dysregulation between the sympathetic nervous system (the gas pedal) and the parasympathetic nervous system (the brakes). So it's not uncommon for affected persons to experience runs of mild tachycardia interspersed with periods demonstrating benign palpitations.

There is certainly evidence to support that anxiety and panic disorder, together with their symptoms, can be concordent through several generations and there is further evidence supported by research that the particular function of neurochemistry in these families may be responsible to a large extent. Whether innate or social derived, there is clear evidence to support a direct association between the disorders and genetic predisposition.

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Reply #6 - Sep 8th, 2008, 10:12am
 
I had another brief episode this morning of those weird, fluttery beats that seem more like quivering rather than beating properly. It only lasted about three seconds, thank goodness. RLR it is so hard to overcome the fear of these darn things, but I am trying really hard. I am so glad I found this message board. Now I don't feel so alone and isolated. My husband just thinks I am a big baby and shouldn't be afraid of the palps. I wish he knew how horrible they feel....he wouldn't say that if he had them.

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Reply #7 - Sep 8th, 2008, 4:10pm
 
Although there is a great deal of variability in the presentation or change in characteristics, this type of palpitation is nevertheless due to the same underlying cause and has nothing whatsoever to do with heart disease or the capacity of the disturbance to cause a cardiac event of any type. I certainly understand your fears and this is where you must concentrate your efforts to better understand what is actually taking place when the palpitations occur.

Again, depending upon precisely when stimulation by the vagus nerve occurs, the heart can be in one of several cycles involving the atria, the ventricles or neither of the two. The sensations can sometimes feel more like a muscle spasm than a hard thump, a flutter or even seemingly present itself as more of an absent beat. For this reason, it's important in this case to think of the heart as a muscle first and an organ second. Spasms of the heart muscle can occur in much the same way as a spasm of a leg or arm muscle.

What makes patients so fearful is that they develop the notion that the heart is not beating properly, then it can represent a life-threatening event. You must realize that the heart is not necessarily disrupted from pumping blood or otherwise doing its job. The inappropriate stimulation by the vagus nerve causes a superimposition of a signal over the regular sinus rhythm. So the heart is never really in any danger at all and can never fail to do its job as a consequence of this type of palpitation.

Sometimes changing body position against gravity can both initiate a palpitation of this type to occur, or alternatively cause the event to subside. The most important fact to remember is that in all cases, this type of stimulation of the heart is forever brief or temporary, lasting from 1 to 4 or 5 seconds at the very most.

Altering your perspective concerning whether the events are actually capable of doing you any harm is the key to helping diminish their presence and effects.

You're going to be just fine.

Best regards and Good Health
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Re: RLR I am new here, and very scared.
Reply #8 - Sep 15th, 2008, 10:07pm
 
Hi there, just to say that I get the quivering kind of palp as well, and I think they feel the most disconcerting of the different kinds of heart feelings I experience. I'm going through menopause as well. My best advice is "don't let them get to you" ... otherwise they do get worse. Ignoring them really does make them subside, at least for me!
Best wishes,
Carol
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Reply #9 - Sep 24th, 2008, 1:25am
 
Hi Siamouno
I  have been using this site for a long time mainly to read for re assurance and sometimes just to know there are others out there like myself.  I noticed your message  when you first came on and I was about to go on holiday so I thought on my return I would just let you know how much your concerns are similar to mine.  I am in my 50s and the palpitations started in my 20s and usually associated with my monthly period, always getting them before that.  I had good and bad patches from then up until my menopause when really I did get them pretty bad along with panic attacks, anxiety and fear really.  My biggest problem is that I can't get it out of my head sometimes  - being away on holiday always helps because I am  doing and seeing things and it seems to take my mind off it.  I know the vagus nerve has been connected to my problem as well and I have to be careful about what I eat.  Overall though they do scare me, especially when I am on my own. I get  so many different types as well which I seem to feel in different places. I have had a couple of ECGS and a heart scan a few years ago  and they did re assure me but it still tends to creep back into my life - the fluttery feeling you describe  I get and I find that quite scarey because it makes me feel something terrible will happen.  Until you have experienced the feeling you just can't describe it to anyone- I think I could put up with them more if they were'nt so scarey in their form.  

Anyway it is good that you have come on the site along with everyone else to help us all re assure each other and of course gain the great help, advice and re assurance from RLR.

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Reply #10 - Sep 25th, 2008, 5:45am
 
I would like to thank everyone for their reassurances. It helps to know that I am not alone. I am not having a good morning. I was perfectly fine, then I got up to let the dog outside and I had a few PVC's while I was up walking around. Of course I started crying because they scare me so. They seem to settle down when I sit still. Then sometimes they are worse when I sit still and better when I am up and around. There is no rhyme or reason to them. I just wish they would go away. Sometimes I call my sister for reassurance. She has them too but not as much as I do.

I sure hope that I don't keep having them all day long...I can't deal with them when I have them that long or that often.  :'(
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Reply #11 - Sep 25th, 2008, 4:51pm
 
I understand that you're frightened, but the key to relief is learning to better understand the nature of benign palpitations and that because of the manner in which they occur, they do not possess the ability to cause any type of cardiac event. They simply cannot. It's not medically possible.

People become frightened because they develop the thought that for some reason, it may not stop or grow worse. Because it has to do with the heart, it invokes a certain fear that things may go really bad.

This is not the case with your condition. You're going to be just fine.

It's also important to work on alternatives to permitting the events to define your life in some way. They are literally harmless from a physical standpoint and you must not let the events curb your outlook.

Best regards and Good Health


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Reply #12 - Oct 29th, 2008, 2:54pm
 
Hi RLR....Today has been a bad palpitation day for me. I was changing position in my chair this morning and had that scary fluttery kind for a few seconds, which scared me although intellectually, I know I shouldn't let it scare me so much. I am trying not to be scared when it happens but I am not having as much success at ignoring them as I would like. Anyway, during the day I have had a PVC here and there. Then, about an hour after I ate, I was practicing my singing because I have a solo to do Saturday, and as I got to the third verse, I got that scary fluttering again, and I didn't think it was going to stop...I had two or three PVC's after that and had to get up and walk around I was so nervous. Then of course after I sat back down I just started sobbing. I am supposed to go practice singing with my group this evening, but I am too scared to go. My husband is out of town too so that doesn't help. RLR I know that you say not to worry, but how can I accomplish that when these things scare the beejeebers out of me? And can singing cause palpitations? Does singing irritate the vagus nerve in some way? Or was it the combination of me singing and a full stomach? Sorry to ask so many questions. I am just trying to understand....Thanks for listening.
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Reply #13 - Oct 29th, 2008, 5:06pm
 
Well, you shouldn't be afraid to go practice with your group. Nothing's going to happen to you. This type of palpitation does not lead to worse things. It is merely stimulation of the heart, not a symptom of some about to go terribly wrong.

It's critical not to permit these events to restrict you from the things you love to do and nothing bad is ever going to happen to you as a consequence of the palpitations. The greatest fear by persons affected by the disorder is that the palpitations will not stop, but they always do and life returns to normal. A number of factors can set the episodes in motion, but it's important to remember that they will always stop and you must learn to exercise firm logic where this is concerned. If they occur when you're out somewhere and you can't ignore them, simply pause until it passes. As I've stated before, in over 40 years of practice, I've never even heard of a person with this type of palpitation ever suffering a single problem as a consequence. Never.

Make certain to move ahead and keep your schedule for practicing.

Chin up. You're going to be fine.

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Reply #14 - Oct 30th, 2008, 10:59am
 
RLR I would like to thank you for your reassurance. I am embarassed to admit to you that I did not go to practice last night. I let the palpitations win again and I stayed home, even though they stopped and I never had another one the rest of the evening, and I haven't had a single one today either. I feel so bad that I let them get the best of me like that. I will try harder to remember what you said next time....I am so ashamed of myself for not going to practice.  Sad
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