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Here's a Question for All of You (Read 441190 times)
Dodger
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #240 - May 17th, 2012, 6:16am
 
bigcountry wrote on May 16th, 2012, 7:35am:
I have read a lot of information from Claire Weekes and between her and RLR I have found that I am able to hold down the fort so to speak on this tremendous fear I have self created.  However just holding down the fort is not good enough for me.  I want to "lose the fear".  RLR talks about finding a root cause for the fear and Claire Weekes talks about Facing, Accepting, Floating and Letting time pass and says its not necessary to find a root cause to recovery from anxiety.   So I am a little confused on how to proceed going forward!  The days I use Claire Weekes methods without question are my better days until I have a bad skipped beat day and then for 24-48 hours it seems like all hope is lost, and that I fear that I dont just have benign palpitations and I am going to die and leave my 2 kids and pregnant wife behind......or my other fear is what if my anxiety gets so bad that I lose my job and am unable to work and make a living for my family.  The cycle is endless and exhausting.  Thats why I am going to use this forum as much as possible because this is not a life I want to live.  I know I can do it with the input of others and RLR.  I dont speak much to ANYONE about my heart or anxiety so having this outlet is my only true voice outside of my head.


I feel our post so much. I have been doing great lately with my anxiety and skipped beats, palpitations and such Then out of the blue this morning I get a run of flutters and skipped beats and it all starts again. I think I have calmed myself down , but I was like NO I WONT LET THIS CONTROL ME  AGAIN!! Sometimes it just seems so overwhelming and I worry like you what if it happens at work? While driving? My key has been to try and just relax thru it or even ignore it and move on, go for a walk or just do something. I to think I should keep reading and posting instead of only turning to these forum and great people when I need comfort or reassurance. Hope you are having a better day.
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #241 - May 17th, 2012, 8:00am
 
Dodger....the bad heart days are what sets me back big time.  They are so hard to deal with.  Since I posted my post at 11:35pm 2 nights ago this post has received 140 views!!!  So we are not the only ones struggling with this.  I am working hard and reading this entire post again and again to attain my end goal and that is to move forward with life with no fear of my benign palpitations!

Below is a post by RLR and I truly believe we can all overcome this!!
"Now we're beginning to head in the right direction.

This thread doesn't require my guidance in any real sense because the revelations which you will discover through direct participation will be entirely derived by those who engage it on their own terms. In other words, how you react to this thread will speak volumes and you should pay very careful attention to this element. If you are one of the some 5400 or so persons who merely read the thread but cannot become involved, then you need to ask yourself why. If you participate but can't seem to pierce the veil which leads to an area being avoided, then you need to ask yourself why. If you don't know why, post the question and seek responses from those who have stepped across that barrier.

You must draw the collective issues out into the open within the safety of anonymity and become unafraid that doing so will cause some loss of control over the circumstances. Realize that this fear is what causes many persons to develop significant anxiety, for they exert avoidance of issues which generate a perceived threat to their well-being in some regard. The result for many is a form of indentured servitude where control over daily regimen is induced, often accompanied by rituals in many forms necessary to keep life in balance. An unidentifiable unrest seems to prevail and it is this lack of identity or definition which produces the overwhelming fear.

It becomes a life with near total energy divested in prevention of circumstances that are unreal and imaginary, leaving little to no energy devoted to one's aspirations, goals and sense of accomplishment. You have the same capacity as you've always held, but it is being depleted daily by attempting to exert control over factors that are irrational in form and only exist in the realm of unwarranted speculation.

You must expose the barriers which rob you of the energy necessary to take back your lives. You must challenge their existence and demand proof of any speculative consequence. You must come to realize that the origin of your entire difficulty is based in your patterns of life.

Fears must be fed to remain alive. It is this compelling drive which imprisons persons with anxiety. Remember that anxiety is not a disorder at all, but rather simply a state of mind. If it becomes habitual, it produces a constant state of unrest. People with anxiety find themselves consistently being drawn to elements which strengthen and intensify their fears. If they experience a palpitation event, they most often feel compelled to peer into the farthest range of tragic outcome, to read the ending of the book before understanding its content, to try their best to predict the outcome no matter how far-fetched, subsequently developing apprehension of such an outcome as though it were somehow magically made real by their unregulated thought process.

All of this and more is what you must question and seek to determine within yourselves. With the help of others experiencing similar difficulties, you must use this thread to draw forth and explore these expressions and put them to the challenge. You must avoid looking externally for guidance or reassurance and realize that it has been within you all along. You've simply lost faith in your abilities in this regard.

If you want to truly be free of difficulty, including that associated with benign palpitations, then you must step up to the plate among one another and take the journey together. I'll be around and I'll certainly be examining the passages generated on the thread, but I can't take you across the threshold. You must do this yourself.

I can tell you that what awaits you is what you've thought to be lost and irretrievable.

Best regards and Good Health"
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #242 - May 17th, 2012, 11:05am
 
RLR tells us that we need to start looking at this thing at a Macro level and work our way in.  He says anxiety is basically just a bad habit that has been developed.  One thing I notice and am really trying to cut down on is an acute awareness of myself.  Every tingle, shake, missed beat, vision change etc.  This I feel is exhausting me, so in order to change it I am not trying to ignore it but acknowledge the sensation and then move on rather than focusing in on it and trying to determine if it is dangerous or not!  Obviously it is not because I believe a large part of us experience very similar things on a regular basis and we all are still alive : )

A person without anxiety hardly ever notices these things and even if they do they pay no attention to them.  I think moving forward this is a big area where I need to change my habit!
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Dodger
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #243 - May 17th, 2012, 2:14pm
 
That is exactly what I had to do. BigCountry. I literally started yelling at myself in my head. I would start to panic and I would just shout at myself to stop it and that I was being an ass. My doctor told me about the Vagal (sp) maneuvers to help stop the palpitations and lo and behold they work, at least for me. So now when they start instead of dwelling on them I try to do something as soon as I feel them start. I go for a walk,
read a book, just try to do some activity to take my mind off of them. For me anyway it really seems to help. Today was the first time since January that I have felt them at all.
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #244 - May 17th, 2012, 7:41pm
 
I am definitely trying to bring to the forefront all of these habitual behaviors I have created that have lead me down this path.  I have skipped beats all day everyday and I have really grown ok with them...it is when they suddenly change or increase in frequency or intensity that they throw me for a loop.....  : ) even though I have read from RLR a million times that no matter the frequency or intensity they will never do me harm!
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #245 - May 21st, 2012, 7:38am
 
Ok since my last post I have tried to really focus on my habits, thoughts, feelings etc and I noticed one main thing is that when I am at home and have my skipped beats they are bearable and I can cope with them, however when I am out and have them they feel much more in tense and I feel myself trying to listen in and make sure they dont get worse.  This is silly because I actually believe that if they do get worse there is something I could do about it???

Do I really think I can control my heart?  This is what I think its all about for me....I think I can control my heart and avert something horribly if I just maintain constant vigilance over it at all times.  This is where I have to come to an understanding with myself and my skips as this is absolutely impossible and not necessary because they are benign.....even if they werent benign my efforts would be fruitless.

So I will be working on this hard this week.

Thanks
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #246 - May 21st, 2012, 8:03am
 
Also I have read a over much of this post over the weekend and one thing that keeps sticking out to me is from RLR and he says we need to stop focusing and being afraid of the physical aspects of what is happening and we need to venture toward what is really causing these.  

I will tell you that I had a brother die in the middle of the night from heart problems.  I was 16 and he was 18.  Many years later my oldest sister started having heart problems and now she, my mom and my 2nd of 3 sisters all have defibrillators in there chest.  They put me through all of the same tests and said my heart was fine.  During all of this I had just changed my job, my wife was pregnant with our first child and I bought my first home.

One day during this time my heart skipped a beat! It scared the hell out of me and I couldnt help but think they missed something and that I would die.

So I can tell you my fear is definitely based around all of this information.  Now I am dealing with the physical aspects and for some reason no matter how many times I read the information that RLR provides to me, if I have a bad heart day, it all goes out the window!

So to be blatantly honest with myself and everyone here I am afraid to die.  I am afraid they missed something and that my heart will do whatever it is that my brothers heart did or what my mom and 2 sisters heart did.  As hard as I try to mentally get over this I have been unsuccessful and struggle on a daily basis!

This is why I am determined to work with everyone here and be a voice and get to the endgame and enjoy the rest of my life.
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richie
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #247 - May 21st, 2012, 11:21pm
 
hi Big Country

But in your case your fear has become reality. Your brother died of heart problems and in your close related family are heart problems known.
So I think in your case doctors should never underestimate your complaints. There is a real possibility you and your family have more heart problems in the line of the family (DNA / Gen?) than other families.

Although I know RLR is right, and that in most cases palpitations probably mean nothing. you never can discount symptoms. espescially when this is known in your family. I think its normal you get an examination every once or twice a year just to check you.
in my opinion that would be normal. Its my believe that we pay health insurance.. and where I live in Europe we pay for health care. read the word. HEALTH CARE. the problem is, there is no focus on keeping people healthy, so prevention checks, but only when people become real ill or having problems ..care kicks in.. (at least in the Netherlands this is, and we have a good health care ).

people do die , also after just being examined. People who are clean of cancer 2 months ago, are full of it two month later and with no chance of recovery.
I start to accept that these things happen and medicine and doctors only can do what they can do. but there arent miracle workers either. they make mistakes, they cant see and know everything and in the end they are sometimes just as powerless in situations.
thats life i quess.

I totally agree with you that it is a fear of dying, being mortal, that your best time is already gone/up.

I really dont know if my symptoms in the end arent a real problem or not. probably not, but it is a real symptom which occurs cause something in my BODY is not balanced. or deficit or not working as it used to do. In my believe that should be addressed too.

best of health to you my friend
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #248 - May 22nd, 2012, 7:30am
 
Richie, I have been through countless test etc because my mom is a worry wart and I have had an MRI of the heart, numerous treadmill test, ekgs, 2 week holters, and other various test over the course of several years.  I am in the medical industry so I do not hold the negative outlook that you do on results etc.

What I do know is that I have been told that my heart is fine by some of the best heart/cardiologist docs in the country.  So in order to move forward with my life I have to believe what they say.

I have anxiety.  I have it bad and have had it for 7 years.  RLR says anxiety is a habit and I definitely agree with him.

So in order to proceed on with my life where anxiety isnt the MASSIVE part that it is I am using this forum to study, understand, and map a game plan to recovery.  Anxiety can and does cause physical symptoms even to the heart and I, along with everyone else on here are living proof of this fact.

You said in your post the following "but it is a real symptom which occurs cause something in my BODY is not balanced. or deficit or not working as it used to do. In my believe that should be addressed too.
"  and this is a true statement...the body is not balanced because we have unbalanced it with a bad habit and that habit is thinking that something that isnt going to harm us is going to kill us.  Once this problem is resolved mentally in us the problems will lesson or be removed.

So my plan moving forward is to concentrate on my thinking patterns and break this bad habit.
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #249 - May 22nd, 2012, 9:20am
 
My Plan of Attack--

RLR said " Once you've experienced benign palpitations and they are unwittingly perceived to be a threat, any subsequent incidence will continue to produce similar reaction until such time that you transform your perception from irrational to logical. That is in part, the goal of this forum, to provide you with facts that can gradually restore the proper perspective and logical resolution to the circumstances. You are repeatedly frightened and your confidence challenged because of what you believe benign palpitations to represent."

So I will be working hard to change the thought process not only on my skipped beats as they happen but on the rest of the somatic systems that the skipped beats have caused due to the stress involved.  

It will not be easy and I will update you every step of the way.  I will be challenging my self talk with logic provided by RLR and truly believe this is the way out and back to the life I once had.

Example--skipped beat....Thought--these are not dangerous, they are caused by the over stimulation of the vagus nerve, they have never harmed you in the 7 years you have had them because they do not affect the hearts performance. You exercise daily and other than the anxiety they cause you due to your thought process, they are of no consequence.

Repeat  : )
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #250 - May 22nd, 2012, 9:22am
 
Hi bigcountry. (why do I start to sing the song "look away"in my head all the time I read your username) Wink

I'm happy for you, that your heart seems to be fine.
Its absolutely true that you have to trust this. ( although I do believe in your case doctors should always be careful).

Your comment about my body quote is a good one.
I know I should trust my body more. and that the disbalance you think of could very well come from me worrying to much, adrenaline, cortisol, and so on.

I quess I just cant believe or accept that my anxiety and chronic hyperventilation causes all my symptoms
When my tsh is 3,8 and that is a bit high, I think.. see its my thyroid working to slow. if my calcium is on the highest point of what is normal 2.59 mmol than I think i have an underlying serious problem and that the bloodtest indicate something IS wrong.

but my doc says "no" dont worry.
then I start to look on google and the net what these numbers mean and I do see that these arent good.
Its like you said. I dont want to die cause my doc things I'ám anxious and therefore do not need examination anymore, cause my heart was ok the last time , or nothing is wrong

thats my puzzle and problem.

kind regards !
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #251 - May 22nd, 2012, 9:36am
 
Richie...just from experience you should never look on Google.  You are not a doctor and do not have the training to understand what is being said and what context it is said in.  RLR mentions this a lot in most of his post.  I am a medical device salesmen and have been for 10 years.  I have been in 1000's of surgical cases and even with every thing I know I know absolutely nothing when it comes to diagnosing patients.

Please believe me when I say that anxiety can absolutely cause these symptoms and does to millions of people!  I have studied for years on anxiety and it makes absolute sense.  You are having a thought, a scary thought, over and over and over again and your body is just reacting appropriately.  Lets say you are watching a scary movie, you know its a movie yet your heart races, your hands clam up etc.  When the movie is over you go on with your life!  Unfortunately we never let our movie be over....we constantly believe that these are going to harm us and as long as we believe that our body will react!

trust me...I know its much harder than that....but its the truth.

That is why I am here.  I want to get past this and get my life back and I will not give up until that happens.

Thanks for being involved.  Hopefully we both can overcome this and help each other along the way!
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #252 - May 22nd, 2012, 9:54am
 
Bigcountry

I really do understand how this all works (anxiety , and the nervous system (parasympatic). adrenaline no adrenaline, cortisol and the programmation of fight and flight and arousal (mind body)

Still .. well you know what i'm going to say.. i keep having my doubts Smiley

I really hope you , and all the others here coping with these kind of problems will get their life back on track. When i'm really convinced its my (sole and only)cause of all my symptoms too, I really wish I beat this anxiety too and the effects it has on my body.
I'm not there yet. I'm not that strong maybe..

although less worrying altogether wouldnt hurt me whatever the cause.

for now.. many thx and kind regards !! and reclaim your life so you start to remember yourself again when you could run, swim, sport, live life , without constantly thinking if you survive.. ( i know I want to get back to that state..I sometimes dont recognize myself and that feeling anymore)
p.s. english is not my native language so forgive me type -o's and some strange sentences or semantics
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #253 - May 22nd, 2012, 11:39am
 
Just came to think while reading your lasts post that maybe it's someway healing to look at the whole thing as a vicious circle. From all I've read here, by RLR and others, it's a fact that several factors contribute to "benign palpitations".

1. It's a fact that the heart now and then, maybe often for some people, make an extra beat (which might feel like it skips a beat). It's also a fact that the heart sometimes beat harder. And it's a fact that some people do FEEL this. And do I have to mention that many people experience these "out-of-rythm-beats" as a very unpleasant phenomenon?

2. It's a fact that anxiety in some way - in cooperation with the autonomous nervous system/the vagus nerve - can contribute to palpitations, and probably often does. It seems that a period of your life with many stress elements originating from job, love scene, economy - you name it - creates more impulses in your autonomous nervous system. Maybe (my interpretation) makes it more "sensible".

3. It's a fact that physical impact (sleeping on the left side, eating too much, bending over, maybe lying down with an all too full stomach also - just like stress - can generate "false signals" that reach the heart.

4. And as for the physical contributors the chemical ones: Alcohol, cafein, maybe nicotine and probably many drugs.

5. Finally it's unfortunately very difficult to diagnose which one (or two, or three) of these factors is the culprit. And therefore the way forward is:
a. Get your heart checked.
b. If okay, try to work on the other possible palp-generators, knowing that it might take quite som time, accept the fact that they are unpleasant - AND that the palps (so says RLR) never turn into anything worse or are dangerous or signs of beginning heartdiseases.

Okay - it turned long ... But this is what I think about this now.
Best of luck to all.
Martin
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #254 - May 23rd, 2012, 11:10am
 
Just an update!!

I have been practicing what I preach so to say.  As you know I am in Medical Device and yesterday I had a meeting with a surgeon and then took him to dinner.  I would usually be a mess all day and my heart would be really acting up especially during the meeting and dinner.  In the past I would get tense and really increase all my symptoms including skipped beats.

Yesterday I chose to go down a different road.  Everytime I would feel nervous, a skipped beat, a run of skipped beats, dizzy etc etc....instead of reacting with fear and letting my mind race I simple made the following statement....Has this happened before?  Yes...What happened then?  I was really scared, made the symptoms worse, did not enjoy myself, thought I was going to die etc etc...Did any of those thoughts come true?...NO...Have any of those thoughts EVER come true in the 1000's upon 1000's of times this has happened to you?  NO!!

Then I would stop the conversation in my head and join life again.  How did it work.  It worked great!  Did I still have the symptoms...absolutely...but I was able to enjoy my evening and felt like my life wasnt in danger.

I will continue to process this and make changes as necessary.  I could die in a car wreck tomorrow, and I have spent the last 7 years in my own private hell about a benign condition with my heart!

Well as RLR says "you have to stand up and take your life back, what other choice do you have!"  

So that is what I have decided to do.  I know there will be ups and downs but I am ready for the challenge and excited to fight hard and get my life back!

Thanks to everyone for there help and I will continue to be very active in this thread.
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