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Here's a Question for All of You (Read 258590 times)
bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #360 - Nov 04th, 2012, 7:58pm
 
Great post RLR!!!  I agree habits are key to recovery.....I have been focusing on these habits more that anything else but I still struggle with implementation of new habits over the old.   I still recoil at some of my symptoms all of the time....I have made great strides and do more things now then I have done in a long time but still struggle.

I notice the habit of tensing too in this recoil....which changes my breathing etc and adds to the difficulties I have already.

Do you have any recommendations on breaking these habits?

Also what other habits can you discuss that are obvious in most people with anxiety that are detrimental to the recovery process?

Thanks

Big Country
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #361 - Nov 5th, 2012, 5:11am
 
That's a great post by RLR. Thanks for keeping us updated with your progress BigCountry.

I find that the fear of my heart is relatively low now. I have come to believe that I'm fine after all these years, they're a lot more common than I'd realised, and so I suspect I was simply wrong in my assumption.

The trouble is, that the years which it has taken me to come to that realisation has lead to a lingering health anxiety.

The stress which I put myself under when the palpitations first came to light lead me to numerous other issues. Constant tiredness, headaches, and the main one for me has been stomach problems. Cramps, indigestion, acid reflux, stool inconsistencies.

I also have an inguinal hernia on both sides which is being operated on in January and which I'm fearful of the general anaesthetic, even though I've had it twice before about a decade ago!

So whilst I'm pleased to report that my heart worries seem to be subsiding, my general levels of anxiety remain high. I believe deep down that it's because I have personal issues of my life's direction and the expectations of myself.

I had grand plans growing up to get a job I loved, earn lots of money, go travelling. The reality has turned out a lot different - I have a dull 9-5 job, struggling through the recession to try to afford to own a house, let alone have enough left over to see the world. It came as a big disappointment to me and I'm struggling to prioritise. I feel that life is far too short to waste doing something I don't like. The trouble is, as with much anxiety, at this time I can't see a way out of this predicament.

Best wishes to all.
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #362 - Nov 15th, 2012, 8:41am
 
Just a bump as I feel this post is the most important post on the site and will help most of the newbies especially if they read back through!

I hope everyone is doing well!
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bigcountry
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #363 - Nov 19th, 2012, 12:50pm
 
Just wanted to update everyone on my progress as of late!

I am making huge strides with all aspects of my anxiety and palps...I have really worked hard in understanding everything the RLR has to say...not just with palps but with anxiety as a whole because they are truly one entity!

I have jumped off the cliff with both feet and guess what...it is only 2 feet high!  You have to trust 100% what RLR is saying!  I had palps 10-15 a minute for years....anxiety so bad I was afraid to leave my house!  No my palps have greatly reduced and even when I get them I am not scared....I still have anxiety and palps and I am treating them both the same way....with an I DONT CARE ATTITUDE!!  

I pay special attention to my habits and actions and notice that they are so automatic its scary.  You need to become very self aware even to see them....once you start picking them out then you can start changing your behavior!  Anxiety IS NOT A DISEASE BUT PURLEY A STATE OF MIND!!!

Jump off the cliff folks!!!  It is only 2 feet high!  Life is too short to liveit with anxiety!  AM I HEALED...not yet....but I am well on my way!

Big Country
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #364 - Nov 19th, 2012, 2:52pm
 
Yes...you're very accurate in that Life is Too Short. I have a huge reoccurrence of palps now, after panic attacks over an injury to my neck. My mind grabbed hold of me SO hard, as I struggled with the potential disabling effects of the injury. I would even create scenarios whereby the End is near.  It's still a big challenge, but I'm working with meditation and have a minimally invasive surgery scheduled to repair my neck. It is very obvious that my stress induced the return of palps. It's also quite tricky to think that something is not really wrong with your heart when it skips a beat, and then thumps a bit. But, time and time again, RLR has demonstrated there should be no concern, other than getting hold of your mind.

bigcountry wrote on Nov 19th, 2012, 12:50pm:
Just wanted to update everyone on my progress as of late!

I am making huge strides with all aspects of my anxiety and palps...
Jump off the cliff folks!!!  It is only 2 feet high!  Life is too short to liveit with anxiety!  

Big Country

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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #365 - Nov 26th, 2012, 10:35am
 
Bump   Smiley
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #366 - Dec 10th, 2012, 6:00pm
 
(Please dont take offence to the tone of this post, I mean it with pure LOVE)

I will just say this...

WE AINT DEAD.

We had the "symptoms". We survived.

How much else could we have done in that time?

If I had invested the 4 years of worrying about my heart into exercising I would have the best body right now! Or I could be a great piano player, lol...

Life IS going to move on anyway. Every single person on this forum (god forbid something outside of phyiscal health happens) will be alive for a long time still. WE'RE ALIVE.

It's best to enjoy the time you have.

Think of these scenarios...

1) For the next 20 years you worry EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY. You live anyway. What a sad waste of time.
2) For the next 20 years you worry EVERY SECOND OF EVERY DAY. You were right and you die of a heart condition suddenly. What a sad waste of the last 20 years that you could have enjoyed by living freely and having fun.

and then...


3) For the next 20 years you have loads of fun and live life to the max. You live anyway. What a great time.
4) For the next 20 years you have loads of fun and live life to the max. You were right and you die suddenly of a heart condition. What a great time.

You see, whether you are sick or not (and this is just false, because none of you actually are sick) you only win by just having fun and enjoying life.

NONE OF YOU ARE GOING TO DIE ANY TIME SOON (GOD FORBID SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF YOUR BODY HAPPENS). I AM PAST MY ANXIETY NOW AND YOU ARE ALL *EXACTLY* THE WAY I WAS.

Let yourself believe it. No ironic force is going to pop up and say "WELL, SINCE YOURE SO COCKY ABOUT NOT HAVING A HEART ATTACK, IM GONNA LAY ONE ON THICK!!! ALAKAZAAAAM!!!". Sorry for the joke, but it's nice to have humour around here Smiley

Try this experiment...

Tell yourself right now in your head "I WILL NOT DIE TODAY, I DONT HAVE HEART PROBLEMS AND I WONT HAVE A HEART ATTACK".

It will be scary, after the first couple of seconds (if youre anything like me) your mind will say "OK OK IM SORRY, I DONT KNOW THAT, PLEASE, I DIDNT MEAN IT. SPARE MY LIFE! HONESTLY, I MAY OR MAY NOT...IM NOT BEING COCKY, I APPRECIATE MY LIFE..."

And then do the same tomorrow.

And the next day.

Soon you will realise that whatever THOUGHTS were going on in your head, the reality is that you didn't die.

To the people who have had anxiety for decades...the first day you got the anxiety you thought you would die then and there. That was DECADES AGO and youre still alive!! You have spent decades in false beliefs. Doesn't that show you whats causing the problems?

I thought for SURE, no....i KNEW for sure I was going to die for years ago. Right there and then. 100% I was convinced. And many other times.

Guess what...

I AINT DEAD.

Anxiety is very complicated. But it's also very simple.

The complexity of it is that it is SO simple that we can't accept that it is. We want it to be complicated.

I love you all and I feel your pain. I'm glad to say that you are all fine and healthy. I would even place a large bet on the fact that noone on this forum will die from heart related problems for the next 20-30 years.

Bless all your (perfectly functioning and lovely) hearts, and good health.
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #367 - Mar 7th, 2013, 5:54pm
 
37, 036 visits to this thread thus far, more than all other threads combined and yet it remains unanswered.

I carry it forward once again and ask you if such a premise doesn't strike you as extremely unusual. Look at the number once again. 37,036. The premise of this single thread is more critical than any other on the forum.

N'er force me to see, for what lies there lends preference for blindness instead.


Best regards,

Rutheford Rane, MD (ret.)

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George
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #368 - Mar 8th, 2013, 1:11am
 
I want this thread to continue, but I don't feel I have anything more to contribute. I have no more insights and don't feel as if I am able to present anything of benefit that I haven't already posted.

I feel at the moment all I am able to do is reiterate sentiments of the others and of my own. In doing so, all I would be doing is re-treading old ground that we've already covered and not searching for something new.

You have said time and time again this thread does not require your intervention, but for me at least guidance is still necessary to find the answer. When I read your post stating the answer is still unfound, I can't help but picture some secret place just around the corner where we're all going to meet, free of anxiety.

I know this isn't going to happen, and that there is no single thing we can all do to magically discover the resolution to our problems.

I feel out of place in this thread at the moment. Maybe I'm expecting something unrealistic?
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George
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #369 - Mar 8th, 2013, 2:10am
 
Alright, I'll take a stab at this once more and see if I can uncover something with my ramblings.

So this thread has more visits than any other thread in the history of the forum, and percentage wise has very little replies. 37,083 views and only 368 replies across 982 days or 2 years, 8 months, 8 days. This is approximately 0.99%.

Maybe it would be a good idea to present some facts and assumptions here.

Facts (things we know are true):

1. Many people have viewed this thread
2. Not many people have replied to this thread

Assumptions:
  • Many people are interested in this thread
  • Not many people have found the "answer"
  • Everybody who takes part is actively searching for the "answer"
  • Most people who read the thread don't reply

I think the actual percentage of people who reply is more than 1% since many of us who regularly visit/visited this thread have increased the number of views. I don't know how many views each individual has incurred, so I won't bother guessing the real percentage. Suffice to say, it's higher than 1%.

Why do so many people read this thread but never bother taking part?

Possibilities:
  • People are looking for a quick fix (i.e., they're lazy and want someone else to find the answer)
  • People are scared to discover the cause of their problems
  • People don't care about finding the answer, just the solution
  • People are interested in a possible problem, but are in denial and secretly feel that posting would mean admitting a problem
  • There is no problem, and this thread is a waste of time

1. Quick fix

Perhaps the average visitor to this thread is the type of person who wants to find the answer to their problems, but is too lazy to go out and try searching for the the answer. Maybe they want to come to the forum, get their daily dose of reassurance, and move on knowing they can come back any time they need relief and will probably find some solace.

2. Scared

It may be that the readers of this thread are those that know they have problems, but due to their anxiety are too scared to delve deeper into their lives to begin a quest for resolution. They might be scared of discovering something terrible or frightening, or may be scared to release the skeletons form the closet, so to speak. Perhaps they're  too scared to leave their current situation for the unknown that awaits them.

3. Don't care

Some people who have anxiety may be so focused on escaping, they don't even care what the cause of the problem is. It may be something unimportant in their lives and all they want to do is find the answer, so are unable to contribute to the forum since they have nothing to say, and are waiting for someone to reveal the secret.

4. Denial

Readers may be in denial about a possible anxiety disorder or problem in their lives, and may feel that if they begin taking part in the thread, this act is somehow an admission of weakness. It could be that these readers are so in denial, they actively avoid any act of admission and therefore lurk on the forum reading the stories and experiences of others, but never sharing their own. In doing so, fooling themselves into believing they have no problems. This is closely related to point 2 (being scared).

5. There is no problem

Unlikely, but possible. I think this one can be ruled out.

I'll point out now that I have been in some of the above situations myself. First denial, then a quick fix and then being too scared to actually find the answer in case something was actually discovered to be wrong with me. It would be unfair to apply my own experiences to everybody with anxiety, but I think it is fair to say we all share some key aspects, such as fear.

The other possiblities are purely suppositions that may be playing a role. I can't really perform any original research to discover the truth other than asking question on this forum, so perhaps these aren't even part of the equation. Perhaps the reason why no one posts is a combination of the above (and others)?

I'm under the impression that, for the time being, we should forget about the fact we have anxiety, and focus our efforts on answering the question: why do so few people respond to this thread?

Keep the posts coming.
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« Last Edit: Mar 8th, 2013, 4:26am by George »  

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richie
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #370 - Mar 8th, 2013, 3:24am
 
its a great thread.

But not one problem or palp is the same. not one man is the same
What helps for one person, doesnt do anything for another.

not every palp is due to the same cause. so you want to know yours !!!
medication A helps in person A but not in person B.

the problem is. there is no GENERAL answer. therefore people keep getting occupied with their symptoms as long as they have them.
sure one person accepts it much faster and goes on. feeling as crappy as the other one that needs more reassurance.
Person A feels better mentally cause he refuses to worry. but thats all.
he still has palps.. so he doesnt worry.. but has symptoms. so where's the anxiety in that? Is he still anxious but doesnt say so or does anxiety has nothing to do with it?

I know enough people with palps and so on. some say they bother, some say they dont care. quess what..they all have them.
so it must be physical , or not?

offcourse people want their symptoms to go away.they are not lazy..more the opposite.  if we havent had the symptoms or think about them this side wouldnt exist. and no one would be here.


to answer the basic question RLR asked.

1 in 3 develops cancer.. more than 1 in 3 die of heart problems.
in the USA alone more than 600.000 people die of heartattacks and failure.. and only ( way to much offcourse) 42000 in traffic.
so that answers the question for the most part.

Also we do have the assumption that while drving yourself you do have a bit of control. with all respect most deaths in traffic occur in the age 15-24 and above 75. often due to way to hard driving and alcohol. or people being to old and dont have the reflexes anymore.
so being in my 40's not drinking and driving to hard I beat some more odds.
the chance of getting seriously ill is way more a probability by pure chance.

and in both cases you are dependent also on others. other people on the road are a factor. you dont control it all by yourself.

the same with illnesses or sensations. we cant control it ourself. we need our doctors to be thorough and dont make any mistake. one mistake can be fatal. and you just darn well dont want it to be you or someone you love..

its not that simple my friend


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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #371 - Mar 8th, 2013, 5:08am
 
richie wrote on Mar 8th, 2013, 3:24am:
But not one problem or palp is the same. not one man is the same
What helps for one person, doesnt do anything for another.

not every palp is due to the same cause. so you want to know yours !!!
medication A helps in person A but not in person B.


I don't want to know the cause of my palpitations, actually. In all honesty I couldn't care less anymore what's causing them because I know I don't have any heart problems. You're right of course, not every palpitation is the same but that's an irrelevant point. In the absense of a heart disorder, palpitations are benign. We know this as a matter of fact, not opinion. Therefore the cause of palpitations is not of concern and no energy should be wasted thinking on the matter.

You're also wrong when you say "What helps for one person, doesnt do anything for another". The fact is, when it comes to medicine, what works for one person, generally works for another. Otherwise medicine would be an art form and not a science. Our biology is pretty much identical to every other human on the planet, and only a very small percentage of our genome is unique to each individual.

To extend the point further, take alcohol as an example. When you drink alcohol, you invariably end up drunk. This is not something that only a few of us can experience, it happens to all of us. Being drunk is a chemical process and the reason it happens to every single person who drinks is because our biochemical make-up is the same. Therefore, if something is affecting your biochemistry, it's going to affect mine as well. Of course I am willing to accept that some people do not respond to drugs as well as others, and some do not respond at all, but these are exceptions to the rule. I am also willing to accept that psychologically, not every non-medical therapy will have the same results for everybody, but this does not mean we've all got our own individual answers secretly waiting for us somewhere. We share a common problem, and will also share a common solution.

richie wrote on Mar 8th, 2013, 3:24am:
I know enough people with palps and so on. some say they bother, some say they dont care. quess what..they all have them. so it must be physical , or not?


There has never been a debate regarding this issue. Palpitations are a physical event, in every sense of the word. That doesn't mean they can't be promoted by non-physical elements of life, such as mental stress and anxiety. Dr. Rane has explained in the past that palpitations arising from stress and anxiety are the result of increased sympathetic tone, or an increase in activity of the "fight or flight" part of human neurology. In turn, increasing the nerves potential to fire at any given moment, which when intercepted by the heart causes the palpitation event. So yes, they are very much a physical manifestation.

richie wrote on Mar 8th, 2013, 3:24am:
1 in 3 develops cancer.. more than 1 in 3 die of heart problems.
in the USA alone more than 600.000 people die of heartattacks and failure.. and only ( way to much offcourse) 42000 in traffic.
so that answers the question for the most part.


You're not taking the full story into consideration. Sure, many people die from heart attacks every year, but were you aware that most of them are aged 65 an above, and most of them were caused by poor diet, weight and lifestyle? Effectively making them self-induced. The NHS (UK health service) websites states that:

Quote:
Women experiencing a heart attack were, on average, significantly older than men (73.9 years old compared with 66.5 years old).


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Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but when I read your posts I can't help but feel they're laced with paranoia, fear and anxiety. You are one of those people in severe denial. Doctors can't find anything wrong with you, Dr. Rane doesn't think anything is wrong and more importantly, after all this time with your symptoms... you're still here worrying about it all.
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #372 - Mar 8th, 2013, 5:26am
 
offcourse you are right about that.. age and terratogenes.
but still there are far more deaths due to illnesses..
i only answered the question. and try to tell why people maybe do or dont answer at this thread. and if you answer to anyone the same as to me in your last words to me in your posting..no one will ever try to say anything.. cause they dont want to be ridiculed..

i really dont understand your last sentence.

Everyone who is still posting here I could tell the same as you accuse me from. Its almost funny . it seems that you mistake YOUR feelings about me, as a fact.
i'm not in denial. Its you who thinks i'm in denial. What you think is subjective and has no meaning whatsoever.
I cant defend myself for your emotions about me.
I really even dont know why you want to say this to anyone, only than to try to put me down. Not every doctor says i'm ok.. its you and in your opinion RLR who says that doctors didnt find anything.
thats not true.
I wrote RLR some Pm's about what went on and asked him for advise. Unfortunately he wont answer. probably because he feels the same as you describe . I'm the idiot in denial Smiley
just maybe i'm not in denial. and maybe my questions are legit. I thought that the purpose of this side was to help people, not to tell them they are some neurotic in denial hypochondriacs. ( let me please give my subjective feeling about this statements) Smiley

but FYI i'm still in the process of..espescially after more problems arised lately.
I never ever would say to anyone he has no health issues.. cause you simply dont know !!!

if you were right everyone could do with one posting here..
and even zero postings..just reading could and would be enough.
I cant help having symptoms..and i certainly cant help you or like you mention RLR, are thinking that i have nothing and therefore wont answer questions or have to come back or consider that there might be more than first met the eye.

you can ask for help and explanation and try to help one another if possible. My heart is ok..i quess.. but neurological..we wait and see.

paranoia?
Its you who thinks people are paranoia. the fact you think that states your very paranoia about people who could be paranoia Smiley

Come on my friend. You have had better ending of postings than this.
Wink
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #373 - Mar 8th, 2013, 5:42am
 
Alright, look: your whole reply was based on my closing sentence, ignoring the bulk of my message. I'm not accusing you of anything, nor implying I know your situation. All I'm saying is that personally, when I read your posts, I sense denial, paranoia, fear and anxiety, regardless of whether or not this is the case.

In the past you have posted your medical findings from the doctors who you have visited and claimed they could find nothing wrong with you. RLR has also stated he feels no sinister problems are looming. Your very sentence "i'm still in the process of..espescially after more problems arised lately. " says to us all that you're in denial and are paranoid about something happening in the future.

You also said "but neurological..we wait and see", but a professional retired neurologist has told you that your symptoms (from what I can remember) don't match any known disease and that your problems lie elsewhere, yet you choose to ignore these posts and continue on with your own theories. You are of course unwilling to change your position, claiming that no one can know.

With respect to your accusations regarding me trying to put you down and being paranoid myself, I can only say you've misinterpreted my post.
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Re: Here's a Question for All of You
Reply #374 - Mar 8th, 2013, 5:54am
 
amazing


so while i have to wait you already say again ' parnaoia denial' and so onSmiley  so if someone have to have under go tests due to symptoms, you already say.DENIAL.nothing wrong Smiley

Again,this says more about you than me.
I will never do this to someone.

RLR indeed gave his opinion. I even asked him about the new things developing and how to approach this. So I do value what he thinks.
unfortunately no answer.now i know why.
i'm in denial and paranoia. and I'm the only one in the world who cant have an illness developing or a physical problem now or in the future. Roll Eyes

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